Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[You Need a Thneed]

Batteries are going to be structural to the car.

Other than in China, battery swapping is something that EV manufacturers have already written off.

Charging speeds are going to be fast enough within a couple years. And the majority of charging will be done at home, where level 3 charging isn’t required.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Batteries are going to be structural to the car.

Other than in China, battery swapping is something that EV manufacturers have already written off.

Charging speeds are going to be fast enough within a couple years. And the majority of charging will be done at home, where level 3 charging isn’t required.

I don't know if there's an guarantee of faster charging times, but I think for the most part that will work fine for the daily commuter scenario, but I was thinking about busy summer seasons on the road. How long would somebody wait in line for charging on their summer road trip when it's 30+ degrees out? It's something that needs to be figured out, because I am sure there will be people driving their ICE passed a line up of cars at an EV charging station and saying to themselves that they'll never do that. It will probably just come down to better trip planning; crowd-sourcing charging services to local residences as part of the whole gig economy comes into play where other EV owners rent out their supercharger (or equivalent) to passing traffic.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I'm starting to consider my next vehicle.
My current lease expires Sept 2022 but considering the order time and vehicle shortage, I don't want to wait too long to start.

Considering a Tesla model Y, any owners and thoughts?
Also intrigued by the Toyota Rav4 hybrid.

Could also buy out my lease and keep my car for now. Have a MB GLC 43 AMG.

Hard to make a decision, but curious on the feedback of electric or hybrid owners.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I don't know if there's an guarantee of faster charging times, but I think for the most part that will work fine for the daily commuter scenario, but I was thinking about busy summer seasons on the road. How long would somebody wait in line for charging on their summer road trip when it's 30+ degrees out? It's something that needs to be figured out, because I am sure there will be people driving their ICE passed a line up of cars at an EV charging station and saying to themselves that they'll never do that. It will probably just come down to better trip planning; crowd-sourcing charging services to local residences as part of the whole gig economy comes into play where other EV owners rent out their supercharger (or equivalent) to passing traffic.

No one is renting out their own personally supercharger, because they cost something like 15k, and need a large power supply that residential service doesn't have. It will definitely be a challenge for road trips once large numbers of people have EV's. A supercharger needs 72kW, so probably needs closer to 100kW supply. 10 chargers gets you to a MW, so you can see how it would add up quickly.



Who knows, maybe by the time enough people have EV's that it would be an issue, charging will be like a gas fill up. It will still require an enormous amount of power to feed charging stations but you won't need many because people won't be stuck at them for an hour.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I meant in general not directed at you but it seems to be the norm these days to finance a new vehicle every few years. This can't go on forever.

Sure it can. As long as automakers offer 72-96 month financing it's going to remain viable. I'm not saying it's smart but a lot of people look strictly at the monthly payments and as long as automakers can provide monthly payments low enough to fit into people's budget the trend can go on forever.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I'm starting to consider my next vehicle.
My current lease expires Sept 2022 but considering the order time and vehicle shortage, I don't want to wait too long to start.

Considering a Tesla model Y, any owners and thoughts?
Also intrigued by the Toyota Rav4 hybrid.

Could also buy out my lease and keep my car for now. Have a MB GLC 43 AMG.

Hard to make a decision, but curious on the feedback of electric or hybrid owners.

I currently have a Lexus Hybrid - gets good mileage, but I am tired of the maintenance (oil, etc.) So will be going pure electric on my next car.

Avoiding Tesla because I want a car that is actually built well. Narrowed it down to the Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo or the BMW iX.

Will likely end up with the BMW because its a SUV and with 2 kids makes more practical sense. Not to mention it costs $60K less. But would really like the Porsche for a couple years of super fun driving.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I'm starting to consider my next vehicle.
My current lease expires Sept 2022 but considering the order time and vehicle shortage, I don't want to wait too long to start.

Considering a Tesla model Y, any owners and thoughts?
Also intrigued by the Toyota Rav4 hybrid.

Could also buy out my lease and keep my car for now. Have a MB GLC 43 AMG.

Hard to make a decision, but curious on the feedback of electric or hybrid owners.

I got a RAV4 hybrid this year and it’s great. I don’t really notice the difference in the city but 800+ km range is nice for driving out to the coast. I really wanted the RAV4 Prime plugin since the majority of our city driving would have been pure battery.

[photon]

I'm not sure if I can get an electric. We recently suited our basement for my parents to move in, we upgraded the service to 120A (I think) because we added an oven and dryer. So I assume I'd have to add even more if I wanted to add a 240V line into the garage, but I don't know if that's even possible or how much that would cost.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by photon

I'm not sure if I can get an electric. We recently suited our basement for my parents to move in, we upgraded the service to 120A (I think) because we added an oven and dryer. So I assume I'd have to add even more if I wanted to add a 240V line into the garage, but I don't know if that's even possible or how much that would cost.

It's all possible, for enough money. 120A probably isn't enough though, as you will want at least 60A to the garage. If it already has that, you might be good. If you don't, you are probably looking at at least $1000, probably more like 2k if you need a new garage panel, and it is overhead powered from the house.

You can check the main breaker on your house and see if you upgraded to 120A or 200A. Wait, is the garage attached? If so it might not be a huge deal and all run off the same panel.

[photon]

Garage is attached, and I'm pretty sure the main breaker was 120A but I can check.

I can ask the same electrician about how much, but $1-2k isn't that bad.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by photon

Garage is attached, and I'm pretty sure the main breaker was 120A but I can check.

I can ask the same electrician about how much, but $1-2k isn't that bad.

If it's attached garage, and he thinks the panel has enough, that's probably around what it will cost. If the overhead lines and panel need upgrading, that's gonna cost ya a bit more, probably around 3-4k.

[photon]

I mean it's probably still worth it, it'll pay for itself eventually, just harder to swallow.

[Fuzz]

For sure. I put 2 in my garage when I built it. Doing it myself, the supplies still cost about $400. It's a bit of a hidden cost with EV's that will become a reality for many people soon enough. I can't imagine anything built before 2015 is equipped for it.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

I currently have a Lexus Hybrid - gets good mileage, but I am tired of the maintenance (oil, etc.) So will be going pure electric on my next car.

Avoiding Tesla because I want a car that is actually built well. Narrowed it down to the Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo or the BMW iX.

Will likely end up with the BMW because its a SUV and with 2 kids makes more practical sense. Not to mention it costs $60K less. But would really like the Porsche for a couple years of super fun driving.

Sounds like we have very similar tastes.
The Taycan cross would be my 1st choice but doesn't make sense for our family car.
Right now we don't have kids and have only 1 vehicle, but that should change soon.
My thoughts are get a family friendly electric at a reasonable price now and save the Porsche for my 2nd fun vehicle.

I love BMW but the iX isn't really speaking to me design wise. May have to look at it in person when possible.

[photon]

I could get a Porche Panamera Hybrid and push the electric vehicle decision out a while more while getting some better efficiency.

[Azure]

We need mandated 220V hookups in every new construction & renovation.

As for the discussion, my feeling is that quick charge (maybe not 10 min) will become reality quicker than battery swap.

Density will be harder to solve, but do we really need more than 400 km per charge? For me that would be perfectly good enough, and I believe even Tesla has said that range is good enough.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Azure

We need mandated 220V hookups in every new construction & renovation.

As for the discussion, my feeling is that quick charge (maybe not 10 min) will become reality quicker than battery swap.

Density will be harder to solve, but do we really need more than 400 km per charge? For me that would be perfectly good enough, and I believe even Tesla has said that range is good enough.

400km doesn't get you to the ski hill and back in winter, given a ~30% efficiency loss, and keeping the battery warm. Does that matter for everyone? No. But it would be a deal breaker for plenty.

I think for a mixed use vehicle, 500km is a requirement, because the reality is you have cold weather loss around here, and you never actually use the full range, or want to charge it 100% if you can avoid it. And driving on a trip you are only going to fill 80% or so before charging speeds drop. If it's a city car? Sure, 150km is probably more than enough.

[bossy22]

It cost us $250 to install the 240 in our Cochrane place. When we moved it was a bit more effort for the electrician and it was $800. That was 6 years ago.

[bossy22]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

400km doesn't get you to the ski hill and back in winter, given a ~30% efficiency loss, and keeping the battery warm. Does that matter for everyone? No. But it would be a deal breaker for plenty.

I think for a mixed use vehicle, 500km is a requirement, because the reality is you have cold weather loss around here, and you never actually use the full range, or want to charge it 100% if you can avoid it. And driving on a trip you are only going to fill 80% or so before charging speeds drop. If it's a city car? Sure, 150km is probably more than enough.

Our range is 439km. In the winter when it's cold, we need to stop in Canmore on the way home to give it a bump. Works well being the new chargers are by the alberta wing shack which is where my kid likes to get chicken strips from. On those ski trips, we top up to 100% at home, go skiing, then stop in Canmore, plug in and go get some chicken strips for the kid

[bossy22]

This guy is good to watch. He's based out of Norway. Drives a Tesla but gets to test every other maker out there. He likes to do timed runs up to the arctic circle which is about 1000kms for him. They have a way better infrastructure than we do, but I still find it interesting.



https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland/videos