[Trade] Eichel + 3rd to Vegas for Tuch, Krebs, 1st, 3rd

[Buff]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I bet Buffalo wins a Stanley Cup before the Flames do.

I doubt either wins a Cup in the next 10 years.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Monny hasn't got a 5v5 point in his last 15 games.

Not sure how many points to expect playing with Lucic and Lewis

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Buff

I doubt either wins a Cup in the next 10 years.

Vegas probably doesn't either, lets be real

$78.74M commited to 11 players next season

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

How has McDavid helped the Oilers? Bad teams stay bad. Good teams don't tank.

Regular season? The Oilers have 171 points in their last 136 games. That's an average (read: not extrapolation) of 103 points per 82 games

Playoffs? I wouldn't put too much stock into the bubble, which really just leaves last year. They got swept, and it was awesome as a Flames fan. But they're clearly deeper this year with the additions of Bouchard, Hyman, and Ryan.

Do I think they're a contender? I'm not convinced, because I'm not sold on other aspects of their roster - specifically their D because I think Nurse is a player who was actually just propped up by McDavid rather than an actual #1D, and I don't know if Keith-Ceci are a competent second pair (early metrics show that they're not). But these are the problems I'd like to have. You can rebuild a second pair in an offseason or two. Two years ago Hanifin-Hamonic was our second pair, and now Kylington-Tanev is (or Hanifin-Andersson, depending on how you elect to rank our D-pairs). I also think Tippett is a bit of an idiot with how often he plays Draisaiitl and McDavid together instead of rolling them on separate lines (when McDavid does just fine with Puljujarvi/Hyman on his line).

Do I think the Oilers win the Cup this year? No, because I'm not sold on their GM/Coach.

Would I trade Gaudreau/Lindholm/Tkachuk/Monahan/Andersson for McDavid/Draisaitl/Bouchard?

In a heartbeat and I'd love our chances with that revamped roster.

There's a reason it would never happen though.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Regular season? The Oilers have 171 points in their last 136 games. That's an average (read: not extrapolation) of 103 points per 82 games

Playoffs? I wouldn't put too much stock into the bubble, which really just leaves last year. They got swept, and it was awesome as a Flames fan. But they're clearly deeper this year with the additions of Bouchard, Hyman, and Ryan.

Do I think they're a contender? I'm not convinced, because I'm not sold on other aspects of their roster - specifically their D because I think Nurse is a player who was actually just propped up by McDavid rather than an actual #1D, and I don't know if Keith-Ceci are a competent second pair (early metrics show that they're not). But these are the problems I'd like to have. You can rebuild a second pair in an offseason or two. Two years ago Hanifin-Hamonic was our second pair, and now Kylington-Tanev is (or Hanifin-Andersson, depending on how you elect to rank our D-pairs). I also think Tippett is a bit of an idiot with how often he plays Draisaiitl and McDavid together instead of rolling them on separate lines (when McDavid does just fine with Puljujarvi/Hyman on his line).

Do I think the Oilers win the Cup this year? No, because I'm not sold on their GM/Coach.

Would I trade Gaudreau/Lindholm/Tkachuk/Monahan/Andersson for McDavid/Draisaitl/Bouchard?

In a heartbeat and I'd love our chances with that revamped roster.

There's a reason it would never happen though.

The great Oilers are as good as they will ever be right now...so are they winning a cup? Also, we need to wait until their schedule evens out a bit before crowning them as being better IMO. Nearly all of their games have been against bad teams who had played the night before or had major issues in their lineup.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Based on how you've ordered the players, you're saying this is our current C depth:

Lindholm
Dube
Backlund

...and this is what you'd like it to be:

Wright
Bedard
Lindholm
Backlund
Dube

Interesting. So, in your perfect world... Lindholm is a $4.85M 3rd-line C, Backlund is a $5.35M 4th-line C, Dube is a $2.3M healthy-scratch C... because we've somehow drafted both Wright (your #1 C) and Bedard (your #2 C)?

I don't know what's worse: You calling Lindholm a 3rd-line C, you wanting to spend $10M on our 3rd and 4th line Cs, you thinking Dube shouldn't even be in the lineup or you acting like Monahan doesn't even exist.

Monahan has to remind me he exists, I guess. That way we can get a return for him now that the Eichel hope is over.

While the reality that you couldn't win back to back 1st overalls is real and something I forgot about - in that hypothetical scenario that you did somehow acquire both Wright and Bedard:

I would move Lindholm to Bedard's RW actually, and Dube to Wright's LW. It's okay to move centres to the wing if you have better centres.

Mangiapane - Bedard - Lindholm
Dube - Wright - Coleman
Pellettier - Backlund - ??

Not sure what the problem is. Looks like a rocksolid core. Even if you only get one out of the two though, and you end up hooped with a lesser pick this year

Mangiapane - Bedard - 4-7th OA pick
Dube - Lindholm - Coleman
Pellettier - Backlund - ??

Still not a bad place to be.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Vegas probably doesn't either, lets be real

$78.74M commited to 11 players next season

It's 16 players.



11 current active roster players plus the 5 on IR/LTIR.



Still not a great spot. Need to shed salary (and this would already have Reilly Smith off the books) or hope the cap rises by quite a bit as I don't think they could even fill out the roster at league minimum contracts if the cap stays flat.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

And that could be the Flames. We trade Johnny and Tkachuk for assets now, and see what happens. Better to have the 3rd best odds than no odds at all.



YES! The Flames need to get back pick+A-prospects for guys like Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Backlund and Tanev. They can hang onto Hanifin, Andersson, Kylington, Valimaki, Mangiapane, Lindholm and still be bad enough to be bad for a couple of years. Then see how the draft works out. Plus in a year's time you have Lucic as an enticing contract for a cap floor team, you might even get an asset for him after you pay his signing bonus



Buffalo's failure to build around Eichel is a testament to how asset-poor they were, much as the Flames will be if they let Gaudreau walk for nothing and then get bent over in the Tkachuk situation.

The time to declare a rebuild is the minute you've established that you can't get Gaudreau re-signed to a fair extension. He can't be your "own rental" like Brodie a couple years ago.

Like two posts ago you said we shouldn't trade Gaudreau so we can justify the rebuild.

[Jiri Hrdina]

A plan that is basically based on landing both Bedard and Wright isn't a plan.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

I see a lot of venting of frustration here and that's cool, get it offa you chests friends. But let's be honest here. The millisecond Vegas was mentioned in the rumour mill you KNEW they were gonna get the deal done. None of this should be even a little surprising. Sure I had hoped the Flames would work out a deal without hamstringing the team, but deep down even I knew that Eichel was Vegas bound on that first "Vegas is in this sweepstakes" tweet.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

It's 16 players.



11 current active roster players plus the 5 on IR/LTIR.



Still not a great spot. Need to shed salary (and this would already have Reilly Smith off the books) or hope the cap rises by quite a bit as I don't think they could even fill out the roster at league minimum contracts if the cap stays flat.

Next season, TSN has those numbers


Today @ 1:55 PM ET
TSN:

Cap Crunch Coming?
Adding Eichel's $10 million salary brings the Golden Knights to $78.74 million committed towards next season's $81.5 million salary cap with just 11 players under contract, per CapFriendly.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Not sure how many points to expect playing with Lucic and Lewis

Well Lucic has 2 5v5 goals so maybe at least equal with the person on the line you're saying is an anchor, but yet still has more points than Monny.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Like two posts ago you said we shouldn't trade Gaudreau so we can justify the rebuild.

Eichel was an option back then.

The dream is over.

EDIT: oh nvm, I know what you're talking about. I was being sarcastic. Why would the Flames need to "justify" the rebuild to the fanbase? If you have a plan you go and do it.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Next season, TSN has those numbers


Today @ 1:55 PM ET
TSN:

Cap Crunch Coming?
Adding Eichel's $10 million salary brings the Golden Knights to $78.74 million committed towards next season's $81.5 million salary cap with just 11 players under contract, per CapFriendly.

Yeah but who cares?

First step: become a team worth worrying about maintaining
Second step: maintain that team

Vegas has been jumping around cap landmines for years because they've managed to accomplish Step 1.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Next season, TSN has those numbers

Today @ 1:55 PM ET
TSN:

Cap Crunch Coming?
Adding Eichel's $10 million salary brings the Golden Knights to $78.74 million committed towards next season's $81.5 million salary cap with just 11 players under contract, per CapFriendly.

Cap Friendly has the roster size only including current active players, but includes all cap hits (active, injured, buried, etc.) in the cap hit.

So not great reporting by TSN.


EDIT:

Forwards (5): Karlsson, Marchessault, Dadonov, Stephenson, Carrier
$20,050,000

Defense (4): Pietrangelo, Martinez, Theodore, Coghlan
$20,012,500

Goalies (2): Lehner, Brossoit
$7,325,000

That's the 11 current roster players signed for next season. $47,387,500 cap hit.


Injured Reserve (2): Patrick, Whitecloud
$3,950,000

LTIR (4): Eichel, Stone, Pacioretty
$26,500,000

Season Opening Injured Reserve (1): Ahac
$897,500

There's the rest bringing it to the $78,735,000 cap hit. (So it's actually 17 contracts, I missed Ahac in the first go around)

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah but who cares?

First step: become a team worth worrying about maintaining
Second step: maintain that team

Vegas has been jumping around cap landmines for years because they've managed to accomplish Step 1.

Yeah, I am sure we will never know but I am very curious if Treliving actually thinks the team is good enough or if Krebs was the prize for the Sabres

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Would like to know this too. Was it a rumor from a credible source or just something tossed around.

https://nhltradetalk.com/rumor-surfa...rasenko-trade/

Shane O'Brien said Tarasenko plus (he did not specify what the plus was) for Tkachuk.

Jeremy Rutherford the Blues beat writer for for Athletic reported Tarasenko, Dunn and high draft picks or prospects for Tkachuk.

Thought a credible source had said a deal involving Kyrou but that may have been a figment of my imagination.

Either way, Brad kept his powder dry and let the Blues have the Tarasenko plus whatever else would have to be thrown in for Tkachuk and we kept Tkachuk.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah but who cares?

First step: become a team worth worrying about maintaining
Second step: maintain that team

Vegas has been jumping around cap landmines for years because they've managed to accomplish Step 1.

We will see...they are missing MAF big time

take Tuch and a couple other 5M players out of the lineup and add Eichel

what is the net gain? depends on Eichel I guess, he will have to be as good or better than he ever has been though

I think you are totally discounting the risk here...Vegas might be totally done as a "top team" unless this goes perfectly for them

[btimbit]

Stupid Vegas

[stang]

Weekes on 630 ched right now