The Phoenix Lights

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Sounds like Lanny's ole hound dog is the key to all of this.

So Reg, are you suggesting that if one of these things lands, the first thing they are going to say is "take me to your breeder"?

Originally Posted by photon

I remember this, wasn't there a video of the lights superimposed with a daytime video of the same place where the mountains are visible, and the lights wink out exactly as they pass behind? And there's an Air Force base near the mountain range?

I don't think I saw any video or pictures that put the lights above Phoenix either. That's what I remember anyway.

I can't comment on what video you saw, but based on what I know about the city as a resident, the video I have seen, and the descriptions of the events, the scenario suggested doesn't make sense. The airforce base in question (Luke) is quite some distance where the lights were. The Lights in 97 were over the city and Luke is way out on the western edge of civilization. It would be like saying CFB Calgary is near the Kananaskis range. The only other strip that flys military traffic regularly is Williams Gateway Field, and it's way over in the east valley. Also, in my particular instance, I witnessed the lights where the lights have never been reported, and there was no way for the mountains to impede the view. This has got me buffaloed.

[troutman]

http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2...hoenix-lights/

Ever heard of the Phoenix Lights? 10 years ago, on March 13, 1997, a string of mysterious lights were seen hovering over Phoenix, Arizona. They were witnessed by a lot of people– Phoenix is a big town. For once, a UFO sighting was well-documented with lots of witnesses spaced out geographically, and with actual imagery and footage.

This was big news. When I saw them, my first thought was, "Hey airplanes!" But I am a foolish NASA stooge planted by the CIA to brainwash the sheeple and keep under wraps THE BIGGEST STORY OF ALL TIME.

Or, maybe, they were, y’know, airplanes.

In fact, they were. Kinda. There was a practice flight going on at a nearby military air base. The squadron flying was dropping flares. The flares had little parachutes on them, so from a distance you’d see — GASP — a line of lights moving very slowly.

I saw a TV show where they proved beyond a doubt that’s what these things were. Video footage shot at night showed the lights disappearing one by one. Were they warping away, entering another dimension, or teleporting to some distant star?

No, they were falling behind a nearby mountain range.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhAQrR8Jhkk

http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0307/debunking.html

http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/19/ufo.lights/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights

Skeptics agree with the USAF explanation that the lights were simply slow falling, long burning flares dropped by an A-10 Warthog aircraft on a training exercise over Luke Air Force Base. Proponents of the spacecraft theory stated that the lights were over the city and not beyond the mountain where the Luke AFB was located. However, detailed analysis of the falling flares shows that they were actually beyond the mountain, as investigators discovered the lights vanished in line with the outline of the mountain. An investigation by Luke AFB itself also came to this conclusion and declared the case solved.

A video illustrating this was broadcast on a special on Fox Television stations about a year after the event. A copy of the original video was used in coordination with a video shot in the daytime from the exact same location. The two videos were merged into one on a frame by frame basis, so that the landmarks were always perfectly aligned. This allowed analysis of the lights regarding their apparent height above the mountain, and it was easily seen that the lights vanished in line with the outline of the mountain.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

The flair story is so much bunk. There are reserves around Phoenix where training takes place, and I have seen these flares being dropped. Just last weekend my wife and I were driving to a construction meeting and we went by one of the ranges where they do exercises. Sure enough, they were dropping flares, and they were nothing like what we witnessed. I specifically asked my wife if she saw any similarity between the flares we were observing ad the lights we saw. No comparison what so ever.

Something that does not hold up on the flare scenario is the fact that flares are subject to atmospheric disturbances, like wind. They move around and do not fall in a uniform line. The Phoenix lights, and the ones we observed, didn't lose altitude. If anything, they gained altitude, and all on the same level. Flares would drop, and desend at different rates, losing the uniformity of their line. Too many things say they weren't flare. No military air traffic in the area that night and the behavior of the lights make it impossible for them to be flares.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

I can't comment on what video you saw, but based on what I know about the city as a resident, the video I have seen, and the descriptions of the events, the scenario suggested doesn't make sense. The airforce base in question (Luke) is quite some distance where the lights were. The Lights in 97 were over the city and Luke is way out on the western edge of civilization.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that the lights were actually over the city though, all the videos and pictures look the same; none show the lights in a line overhead, or sloping in the other direction as viewed from the other side for example. If they were flares, it's possible they were viewed from very very far away.

[troutman]

Is this pilot lying?

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...0425/1001/NEWS

The lights were flares, said the Air National Guard, dropped during nighttime exercises at the Barry M. Goldwater Range.

That's what they were, insists Lt. Col. Ed Jones, who piloted one of the four A10s in the squadron that he says launched the flares.

Jones, in his first interview with the news media concerning the night 10 years ago, says he can't believe a decision to eject a few leftover flares turned into a UFO furor that continues to this day.

He now is assistant director of operations for the 104th Fighter Squadron of the Maryland National Guard.

On the way back to Tucson, not far from Gila Bend, Jones says, he reminded pilots to eject their leftover parachute flares.

Jones and the crew returned to Maryland. Several weeks later, Jones says, "All this stuff just blew up."

[transplant99]

I remember this story when it happened as well...thought it was a fascinating one at that.

IIRC this story was my first introduction to Art Bell and his radio show....QR used to carry it I believe.

Anyhow...I saw the videos and what not and certainly was of the opinion that the lights were not man made from anything i had read or heard of....but who knows.

And as for Art Bell and his minions...man did he ever go off the deep end after all this started (or maybe before as i had no idead whom he was).

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by worth

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OGoHuipecYE

"They weren't in the valley at all, they were on the Barry Goldwater range about a hundred and thirty miles from here".

How bright does a flare have to be to be visible from 130 miles away? Pretty damn bright. I don't know the first thing about flares, but I have a hard time believing such a thing is even possible. How big would it have to be? And if it's not a question of big, what material burns that brightly?

I would like to know if our government possesses this capability. If they do, we should get a look at it. They could drop a line of them near Leduc and we could watch the show live from here in Calgary.

[troutman]

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

Past Shows

Tuesday March 13th, 2007


Phoenix Lights & the Norfolk Incident

Investigative writer William Warwick recounted his sighting of the 'Norfolk Incident' and presented a chronology of events surrounding the Phoenix Lights of 1997

Arizona UFO

During Tuesday's first hour, Dr. Lynne Kitei shared a photo she took in 2000 of an unexplained object in the Phoenix skies.

http://www.siriusseminars.com/events_phoenix.html

In collaboration with Sirius Seminars it is my pleasure to invite you to the first and only conference specifically dedicated to the witnesses of the Phoenix Lights on March 13, 1997 and other related UFO sightings. We would like to record video taped testimony from at least 200 eyewitnesses of the Phoenix Lights and other UFO events for historical documentation and eventual placement within the National Archives for future generations.

I bet this will cost witnesses $$$.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by troutman

Is this pilot lying?

Could be, I doubt we'll ever know for certain. I do find it strange that it took 10 years for the guy to come forward, and that Luke didn't mention this earlier. Also, those that live around the base would have quickly made note of that and debunked it earlier. One last thing about the "flare" story that makes no sense, military jets are noisy as hell, especially the wharthog, so for these jets to drop these "flares" without being heard doesn't add up. Something else that kind of blows the theory of a training exercise out of the water is the fact that people in Glendale and Avondale reported the lights as well. Phoenix is east fo those two, and Luke is west. The flight corridor for Luke is over the Estrella range, which is south of the base. It would be like someone living on broadcast hill obvserving something over the Calgary tower, and then the explanation being that the "flares" were dropped over Okotoks by planes that resided in Bragg Creek. I know, I know, don't let little things like geography enter into the equation.

Any how, what I saw was definitely NOT flares from an A10 from Luke, since Luke is on the other side of the city and there are no training reserves near where this took place. So unless the military is dropping flares into the Tonto National Forest, during a fire ban, using super quiet aircraft, I don't think it was flares.

[troutman]

All very interesting. I once saw strange lights over downtown Calgary 20 years ago. My girlfriend at the time saw it too. No idea what it was.

I doubt we are being visited my aliens. I think events we can't explain, can mostly be chalked up to secret military exercises, or unusual natural phenonema. Lanny, you should go to that conference I linked, but beware having to spend $.

Cost:Before March 5th - $75/One Day Pass, $135/Both Days
March 6th - $85/One Day Pass, $150/Both Days

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

Well if there are aliens watching us, they must think dogs are in charge. We chauffer them around everywhere, they poop wherever they want, and we clean it up!!

True, but they still obey us (..sometimes)

...cats on the other hand are the true masters

...[in his Kent Brockman voice] and I for one welcome our new feline overlords

[photon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

How bright does a flare have to be to be visible from 130 miles away? Pretty damn bright. I don't know the first thing about flares, but I have a hard time believing such a thing is even possible. How big would it have to be? And if it's not a question of big, what material burns that brightly?

I would like to know if our government possesses this capability. If they do, we should get a look at it. They could drop a line of them near Leduc and we could watch the show live from here in Calgary.

If it's those flares they use to light up an entire battlefield at night, they're pretty bright. Visible from 130 miles away? Who knows, though it's easy see satellites much further away just by reflected sunlight.

If the flares were over 100 miles away, you wouldn't hear the aircraft.

I'm more likely to believe it was flares, or even unrevealed test aircraft, rather than aliens. But I'm also likely to believe the hoofprint in my yard is made by a horse than a zebra or a unicorn.

[GeoffSK]

I think it was mentioned earlier that the sighting lasted 1 hour. I'm no flare expert, but is it possible for a flare to fall for one hour even if it is falling with a parachute.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Can't be aliens. It's much easier to walk across the border than try to fly in.

I don't know what to do. I believe in hard science and that conference looks like its for a bunch of tree hugging, pot smoking, new age freaks. Like I say, we're perplexed.

[burn_baby_burn]

Maybe Riley Martin isn't crazy. Maybe these lights are from the Biaviian's mother ship.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

I came across this Canadian researcher awhile ago, who suggests that magnetic waves from the earth mess with our temporal lobes and cause people to see UFO's...I don't buy it since the similarity in experience between observers would be tough to explain...but nevertheless

he then proceeded to invent a helmet that creates incredible sensations...often a feeling of god/angels/demons/aliens in&around people (research partially funded by US Navy) which causes some interesting questions to be posed about whether we are 'hard-wired' for 'religious' experiences and if so, what biological purpose would THAT serve (unless there are Angels/Demons/Aliens )

[worth]

The difference between a satellite though is you look straight up.

If your looking at a flare, you have to look through much more atmosphere, because it's more along the horizon which is much more dense.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

I don't know what to do. I believe in hard science and that conference looks like its for a bunch of tree hugging, pot smoking, new age freaks. Like I say, we're perplexed.

No kidding:

In addition, my good friend Guillermo Chavez Rosette will be appearing to speak with us about some of the ancient traditions and prophecies of the Mayan, Azteca and Hopi with a special emphasis on their relationship to the UFO's now being seen by millions of people across the globe. Guillermo has asked me to help him select 10 people from this conference who would be willing and able to travel with him to Guatemala to participate in sacred initiations with the indigenous Shamans

Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of charlatans in this area.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by photon

If it's those flares they use to light up an entire battlefield at night, they're pretty bright. Visible from 130 miles away? Who knows, though it's easy see satellites much further away just by reflected sunlight.

If the flares were over 100 miles away, you wouldn't hear the aircraft.

I'm more likely to believe it was flares, or even unrevealed test aircraft, rather than aliens. But I'm also likely to believe the hoofprint in my yard is made by a horse than a zebra or a unicorn.

I actually do believe they are flares. I think they look like flares, but I can't believe they were that far away. I wouldn't be surprised if it was some sort of mistake, and these things were dropped too close to populated areas and they are just covering their asses with this "it was 130 miles away" excuse.

[worth]

I believe in hard science as well, but it's not unscientific to think that there would be other life out there. Infact, it's quite the opposite.

On the other hand, having ET visiting us here is a bit of a long shot because of the fact that the universe is so vast.