[Rumour] Weekes: Flames offering Tkachuk, 1st, former 1st, 2 prospects for Eichel

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Not saying that. They could just keep the same guys on LTIR and maintain the position that they are not 100% ready to come back. Kucherov was rumoured to be ready weeks before he came back.

Problem is that while on LTIR, those players aren't playing. The Knights aren't currently on a trajectory to make the playoffs. The longer their top players sit, the harder it will be for them to make the playoffs.

They're not the Lightning, who were good enough to make the playoffs without Kucherov.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Problem is that while on LTIR, those players aren't playing. The Knights aren't currently on a trajectory to make the playoffs. The longer their top players sit, the harder it will be for them to make the playoffs.

They're not the Lightning, who were good enough to make the playoffs without Kucherov.

And 50% of the cap on 4 players is… well, it’s lot. An average of $2.1M for per the remaining 19 players.


You’re not going to win much that way, not when you have no more significant picks or prospects to deal for guys under contract.

Vegas might actually need Krebs more than Eichel this year.

Seriously, how does Vegas even come close to beating any number of our offers?

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Problem is that while on LTIR, those players aren't playing. The Knights aren't currently on a trajectory to make the playoffs. The longer their top players sit, the harder it will be for them to make the playoffs.

They're not the Lightning, who were good enough to make the playoffs without Kucherov.

They don’t need them all to sit. Just eichel. The LTIR for all their injured players right now just lets them acquire eichel without sending back much salary (just enough for Buffalo to reach the cap). Then eichel can be the one that stay on LTIR during the entire regular season unless someone like Stone gets injured again and is put on LTIR so eichel can come in. I feel like - just like Tampa last year - it is going to play out so obviously by design with the league just letting it happen. After all, Tampa set the precedent for it already. Absolutely everyone knew what they were doing before the season even started last year… because last summer was when they were supposed to have to gut their team. They got to delay it by a year and bought themselves another cup.


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[Savvy27]

Don't take this as gospel, but I have heard that Tkachuk was discussed in the summer when Eichel could have had the surgery and started the season with the team. Weekes might have picked up on some old info and ran with it because so few names have been mentioned.

I don't think the Flames feel that anybody is offering players of that calibre for Eichel at this point and are counting on "external pressures" to mount for Buffalo to accept a deal based around futures with salary moving out (Monahan?) Or I guess for Buffalo to let him get that surgery and get more certainty before moving a star.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Adams closes the deal at 3am eastern from a strip club.

1 min!

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by stemit14

They don’t need them all to sit. Just eichel. The LTIR for all their injured players right now just lets them acquire eichel without sending back much salary (just enough for Buffalo to reach the cap). Then eichel can be the one that stay on LTIR during the entire regular season unless someone like Stone gets injured again and is put on LTIR so eichel can come in. I feel like - just like Tampa last year - it is going to play out so obviously by design with the league just letting it happen. After all, Tampa set the precedent for it already. Absolutely everyone knew what they were doing before the season even started last year… because last summer was when they were supposed to have to gut their team. They got to delay it by a year and bought themselves another cup.


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The question then becomes whether the NHL approves a trade which is clearly structured specifically for the purposes of cap circumvention. It would be a much worse look than the Tampa Bay situation, which the team construed as a most fortunate aligning of the planets, and was at least loosely based on commonly-accepted recovery timelines and on a player already on their roster. The NHL has to approve trades, and a precedent has been set by the league voiding a trade. Allowing a trade clearly designed to allow Vegas to circumvent the cap would make the NHL complicit in that cap circumvention, as opposed to the TBL situation, in which the league basically said that the Lightning did not break any existing rules, so there was nothing the league could do about it.

Also, how will Eichel feel if they sit him for cap circumvention purposes and that causes him to miss the Olympics? He might not play ball the way that Kucherov did.

[djsFlames]

The hope probably is that Vegas can't make it work, and these external pressures mount to the point where Buffalo must act. Probably what the Flames are banking on.

Vegas is looking at every possible way they can Tampa Bay this thing into existence since they are all in on competing when the roster gets back to health.

[Dion]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1456019271088148485

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

1 min!

It's coming down after the private dance.

Hold on to your (silicone) butts.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Dion

https://twitter.com/user/status/1456019271088148485

Elite neck swivel

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by rm14

elite neck swivel

360° range.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by stemit14

They don’t need them all to sit. Just eichel. The LTIR for all their injured players right now just lets them acquire eichel without sending back much salary (just enough for Buffalo to reach the cap). Then eichel can be the one that stay on LTIR during the entire regular season unless someone like Stone gets injured again and is put on LTIR so eichel can come in. I feel like - just like Tampa last year - it is going to play out so obviously by design with the league just letting it happen. After all, Tampa set the precedent for it already. Absolutely everyone knew what they were doing before the season even started last year… because last summer was when they were supposed to have to gut their team. They got to delay it by a year and bought themselves another cup.


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I don’t think it quite works like that…

Tampa delayed Kucherov getting his surgery until later in the summer, yes. But they also knew what they had in Kucherov - how he fit, what his role was etc.

And they knew the nature of the injury and probable recovery time.

And they had a shortened season because of the pandemic.

Vegas doesn’t have that perfect storm in their favour. They can probably get away with saying Eichel has suffered setbacks in his recovery if they need to keep him on LTIR all year - it’s a neck injury, after all.

But it’s very likely they can’t drag this out all year, when recovery time is allegedly 2-3 months. Where are they magicking up the other 2.5?


Even if they manage to ghost the cap for an extra three months, then they’re Asking a guy who hasn’t played hockey in close to two years to make his debut with a new team in the playoffs. Which represents an entirely different level of physical play that Eichel has simply never experienced. And he’s that is the first time he’s going to test his surgically repaired neck? While having no time to build rapport with his line mates?

So if Vegas gets him, it means they have to clear Major salary - which nobody is going to be in a hurry to help them with, because they ####ed everyone they could during expansion. They’ll have to give away whoever’s left and good on their roster, Marchessault for example, for Pennies on the dollar.

Or pay with draft picks to make guys go away, which further prevents them from adding help they likely need to even make the playoffs in the first place.

I suppose there’s a lot to be said for “do it and figure it out later”, but they really don’t seem to be in a great position to make this work, much as they’d like to.

If they could, they would have done it by now, since Buffalo is so gaga over Krebs.

I could be thoroughly misreading the situation, or not understand the intricacies of LTIR - in fact, the second part is definitely true.

But I still get the sense we’re in this to win it, and all these Vegas rumours are Buffalo’s attempt to get us to add more.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I don’t think it quite works like that…

Tampa delayed Kucherov getting his surgery until later in the summer, yes. But they also knew what they had in Kucherov - how he fit, what his role was etc.

And they knew the nature of the injury and probable recovery time.

And they had a shortened season because of the pandemic.

Vegas doesn’t have that perfect storm in their favour. They can probably get away with saying Eichel has suffered setbacks in his recovery if they need to keep him on LTIR all year - it’s a neck injury, after all.

But it’s very likely they can’t drag this out all year, when recovery time is allegedly 2-3 months. Where are they magicking up the other 2.5?


Even if they manage to ghost the cap for an extra three months, then they’re Asking a guy who hasn’t played hockey in close to two years to make his debut with a new team in the playoffs. Which represents an entirely different level of physical play that Eichel has simply never experienced. And he’s that is the first time he’s going to test his surgically repaired neck? While having no time to build rapport with his line mates?

So if Vegas gets him, it means they have to clear Major salary - which nobody is going to be in a hurry to help them with, because they ####ed everyone they could during expansion. They’ll have to give away whoever’s left and good on their roster, Marchessault for example, for Pennies on the dollar.

Or pay with draft picks to make guys go away, which further prevents them from adding help they likely need to even make the playoffs in the first place.

I suppose there’s a lot to be said for “do it and figure it out later”, but they really don’t seem to be in a great position to make this work, much as they’d like to.

If they could, they would have done it by now, since Buffalo is so gaga over Krebs.

I could be thoroughly misreading the situation, or not understand the intricacies of LTIR - in fact, the second part is definitely true.

But I still get the sense we’re in this to win it, and all these Vegas rumours are Buffalo’s attempt to get us to add more.

It’s a spine injury so the recovery time is extremely fluid. Especially since he’s doing a procedure that no pro hockey player has done… both he and Vegas will be able to argue on the side of caution. All it will take is him saying he’s not back to 100% health and not back to “gameshape”. Vegas management will just say they don’t want to take any risks with his injury. He will get 2-3 months of practicing with the team… running drills and scrimmages as their #1 centre. It won’t take much for him to find his role… elite players find it quickly usually. Then, on day 1 of the playoffs, he’ll be activated. The league will do absolutely nothing about it.

It’s unlikely he is ready for the Olympics at this point anyways so Vegas will probably convince him to sit as long as possible. He’s a new superstar coming to a very successful franchise that will no doubt pay a lot to acquire him… that’s a ton of pressure on him. If Vegas management pressures him even more by asking him to wait to declare himself ready to come back until it works for them cap-wise, I think he’ll do just that. Especially if it means their team gets to remain mostly intact for the playoffs. Doubt eichel wants to be known as the guy that broke up his new team cause he came back too early.

How often has the league stepped in to stop any signings or trades that “circumvented” the intentions of the salary cap? Honestly. They especially won’t step in on this trade since there has been pressure from the NHLPA and the player himself to get this done for so long.

Vegas will deal with any later consequences in the offseason if it means that on day 1 of the playoffs they get to have eichel added to their roster that still has most of their top players… a roster that will no doubt be way over the cap. As far as getting him up to speed… they could look at round one for breaking him in. They’ve made it through the first round several times now without eichel. They can likely do that while getting eichel acclimatized to playing again (especially after practicing for 2-3 months).


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[GreenLantern2814]

Possibly. I wouldn’t put it past the league to allow Mickey Mouse shenanigans.

Still think there’s too many moving parts for Vegas to make it work.

And I still don’t think they can offer what we can.

And what we can offer doesn’t tank our season, or our future.

So there’s no excuse to not win this - we’ve come this far.

You’ve got to beat Tuch, Krebs, Brisson and a 1st.

Finish it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

My opinion on the team as a whole remains that they don’t have the centres to win a championship and if they aren’t moving towards fixing that then they’re wasting their time.

Eichel or bust remains my opinion.

This X100.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by RM14

Elite neck swivel

Jack Eichowl.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by _Q_

This feels like the day my wife gave birth to our firstborn.

Is he named Jack?

[kehatch]

I don't think it ends up as expensive as it sounds, but even if it as Tkachuk, Valamaki, a first, and a B prospect or player does it matter?

The stay it safe Flames are boring. What's the worst that could happen? We don't get to be a late playoff scratch / first round out anymore? Time to do something.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Sounds like Vegas has got him.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1456221801843986441