Gary Bettman Needs to Resign

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

You can just say that you watch hockey for hockey and don't want broadcasts talking about any non-hockey game related activities.

I do appreciate the link about the NHL airing a PSA in 2015 though.

The point is they don't do nothing and it took me all of about 30 seconds to find a few examples. The fact that one was from 2015 actually makes them look better, its not like they started yesterday. But somehow I knew these examples wouldn't be good enough evidence, so go ahead and get back to your indignation.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Igottago

The point is they don't do nothing and it took me all of about 30 seconds to find a few examples. The fact that one was from 2015 actually makes them look better, its not like they started yesterday. But somehow I knew these examples wouldn't be good enough evidence, so go ahead and get back to your indignation.

Thanks I will.

My question to you is - do you think this would have been handled differently on all of the other teams in the NHL and this was just bad luck that it happened on the Blackhawks?

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is the thing - when something legitimately "real life" happens in the context of sports, the people who report about it are sports journalists, and they are, by and large, woefully under-equipped. These are not the best and the brightest of the journalism profession, and you can argue about what proportion of the journalism profession generally are actually particularly bright. But to the extent that they put themselves in the position of arbiters of morality and justice on top of that, that's an utter farce. Tara Sloane (or whoever) has no basis for lecturing anyone about anything and her opinions about right or wrong or what's good for society or bad for society, or any aspect of it, are of no special value.

Hell, the same goes for Rick Westhead, even, but I'm willing to give him a lot more latitude in that area given that it's his reporting that brought an important story to light. The rest of them, though, especially the Sportsnet people, are just latching on and trying to cast themselves as authorities of some sort while begging for a spotlight to be shone on them personally - I can't stand these people.

For the most part on sports analysts/reporters, I'd agree -- but same does not apply for Westhead, despite your caveat that he brought it to light. Proper, investigative journalist with a history outside of sports.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Thanks I will.

My question to you is - do you think this would have been handled differently on all of the other teams in the NHL and this was just bad luck that it happened on the Blackhawks?

Yes, I think its quite possible it would have been handled differently. You've got 32 different teams with different people involved, different leadership groups, etc. Who knows how it would have played out under someone else's watch.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Thanks I will.

My question to you is - do you think this would have been handled differently on all of the other teams in the NHL and this was just bad luck that it happened on the Blackhawks?

I suspect there are some teams where it could easily have happened, and some where it probably couldn't. And that is not a matter of luck, but of the team's priorities.

Some organizations treat their employees as human beings, and take care that management acts appropriately. Some don't care about anything except winning, and will hire human scum if they think it will give them a short-term edge.

I don't know where every team falls on that spectrum, but the last few months have made it pretty obvious that Chicago and Montreal are both near the hire-human-scum end of the scale. Whereas the Flames, from the prompt and decisive way they handled the Peters incident (even though it left them with Geoff Ward as coach, which was not a winning move), appear to be closer to the other end.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Yes, I think its quite possible it would have been handled differently. You've got 32 different teams with different people involved, different leadership groups, etc. Who knows how it would have played out under someone else's watch.

Well that is where I disagree. There are some teams where I'm sure it would have been handled differently, but I strongly believe that a fair number of teams would have handled it the same and not wanted to have a black ace 'issue' 'distract' from a team in the playoffs.

That to me would indicate an league wide culture issue. Sure - probably not a 31 team issue - but even if its 3 teams basically ignoring incidents like this - you've got issues in the league.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by fleury

Guys, the ads aren’t solving anything. Lol.

It’s about the programs they put in place to make things right. Racism, sure they put that group together but it’s more the policing and policies they put in place to promote multiculturalism. I haven’t heard of anything but for the sake of public outcry perhaps they should show what they’re doing. With reference to females involved they seem to have some push to develop women for management roles and that should organically happen over time. These things are slow though. Ask anyone involved with changes what’s the hardest thing to change - it tends to be culture. When it comes to legal matters like concussions, they’ve been pushed now to cut down on head trauma, and we know for decades they’ve been phasing out fighting and head shots. Again, some things are in place which you only see results after awhile.

The reason the ad was being discussed because it was brought up with the follow up: "does she need more?"

The answer, obviously, is yes. Not that there isn't more, but that the mere suggestion that people shouldn't need more than a Scotiabank advertisement as a means of showing seriousness about an issue is ridiculous.

The problem Slone brought up is that the NHL is reactive, not proactive. Issues like racism persist until it is called out and brought to light by people pushed out. Sexual assault gets covered up and homophobia runs free until the victim files a lawsuit ten years later. Ten years! And no one said anything!

That's the silence she's talking about. Ten years and not a peep. Not from the people who covered it up, obviously, but neither from bystanders like Chevy, or the players who knew and the players who were still calling Beach a f***** years later. Absolute silence. And who speaks up every time? People outside the league.

Culture is tough to change. But telling me it takes more than a decade to make racism, homophobia, and sexual assault unacceptable? I'm not buying that, sorry.

[Wastedyouth]

I think the PK Subban ads are powerful.

I am middle aged middle class white dude.

And when I see that ad I'm like "#### yeah, Hockey IS for everyone".

And I hope that POC that see that commercial feel a little more proud and a little emboldened to play hockey.

[dustygoon]

I usually chuckle at threads like this, but he has shown to be out of touch with the kind of leadership needed right now. The hard ass, cynical, legal minded negotiator was key for owners over the last few decades. Someone with more range and social/emotional skills are needed now.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Thanks I will.

My question to you is - do you think this would have been handled differently on all of the other teams in the NHL and this was just bad luck that it happened on the Blackhawks?

Based on how the Flames handled the Peters situation; without a doubt different clubs would have handled it differently.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I think the PK Subban ads are powerful.

I am middle aged middle class white dude.

And when I see that ad I'm like "#### yeah, Hockey IS for everyone".

And I hope that POC that see that commercial feel a little more proud and a little emboldened to play hockey.

I think they're awesome.
I think the game has come a huge way since I was growing up in regards to minorities in the games.

I think the game is a ways behind on homophobia vs where it is on racism now however. Why the 2 are being lumped in together as equal failures, I don't know.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The reason the ad was being discussed because it was brought up with the follow up: "does she need more?"

The answer, obviously, is yes. Not that there isn't more, but that the mere suggestion that people shouldn't need more than a Scotiabank advertisement as a means of showing seriousness about an issue is ridiculous.

The problem Slone brought up is that the NHL is reactive, not proactive. Issues like racism persist until it is called out and brought to light by people pushed out. Sexual assault gets covered up and homophobia runs free until the victim files a lawsuit ten years later. Ten years! And no one said anything!

That's the silence she's talking about. Ten years and not a peep. Not from the people who covered it up, obviously, but neither from bystanders like Chevy, or the players who knew and the players who were still calling Beach a f***** years later. Absolute silence. And who speaks up every time? People outside the league.

Culture is tough to change. But telling me it takes more than a decade to make racism, homophobia, and sexual assault unacceptable? I'm not buying that, sorry.

Okay, here's where I have a bit of a problem with her assessment of the NHL being reactive. How many organizations, sports or otherwise, proactively tackle things without there being some spotlight on it? I'd argue not many. Hell, the NBA with predominantly black players took a long time to recognize a movement. I'm not saying they're the measuring stick, but if you think about the average corporation, who truly does it right? Her own corporation f'ed it up royally and continues to do so, but she won't talk about that.

As for sports culture of silence, we know the adage of what happens in the room stays in the room for almost any sport, not just hockey. Pertaining to this matter, rather than a blanket statement of each player knowing everything, the question is what is the story the players heard at the time, and specifically, were they aware of the rape? There is a difference between being told he got his butt pinched to a rape taking place. Context matters. Additionally was there an impression management was taking care of it which is why nobody talked about it after the guy was let go? If the plausible chance was the players didn't hear about the full blown rape, and the guy was gone a couple weeks later, was it that big a story at the time? Those are things we don't know, so how can we all chalk it up to a widespread problem attributed to the whole league? Some can assume all they want but I'd seriously doubt there's a sexual assault problem happening at the NHL level. Homophobia, racism/discrimination, sure, but who's to say there aren't guidelines in place right now?

[Passe La Puck]

Originally Posted by fleury

Hard to say if the sexual assault problem at the NHL level is widespread or isolated, but it appears they have a policy problem in addressing things like drug/alcohol abuse if anything. Given what you're saying where he could be the one to bridge the gap between players and management, sure, probably right. I just don't know what a figurehead does day-to-day to do it. Probably just ignorance on my part to be honest.

Huh? It’s a fact that it’s widespread. Maybe not by church standards…

[bluejays]

Known fact that sexual abuse is widespread at the NHL level? In what way?

[Passe La Puck]

You mean other than multiple cases across generations of it coming up?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Passe La Puck

You mean other than multiple cases across generations of it coming up?

Go on...what's going on at the NHL level sexual abuse wide that is widespread? Call me thick but I'm not getting the riddle here.

[Passe La Puck]

Players never get suspended or investigated following allegations, ever. Fleury, Kennedy, and this latest is especially bad when combined with how openly he was mocked…that doesn’t happen when it’s taken seriously. Hazing has been a huge issue and is mostly sexual in nature. Then remember how rare it is for people to come forward…this isn’t a one off.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Passe La Puck

Players never get suspended or investigated following allegations, ever. Fleury, Kennedy, and this latest is especially bad when combined with how openly he was mocked…that doesn’t happen when it’s taken seriously. Hazing has been a huge issue and is mostly sexual in nature. Then remember how rare it is for people to come forward…this isn’t a one off.

Fleury and Kennedy's didn't happen at the NHL level. The hazing was largely taking place until it was exposed around the early 2000's. No way that's going on to the degree it did before, if at all. I'm not saying nothing sexual in nature isn't happening, but there's no evidence of this being widespread.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Passe La Puck

Players never get suspended or investigated following allegations, ever. Fleury, Kennedy, and this latest is especially bad when combined with how openly he was mocked…that doesn’t happen when it’s taken seriously. Hazing has been a huge issue and is mostly sexual in nature. Then remember how rare it is for people to come forward…this isn’t a one off.

At the NHL level?? This is the only one I’ve heard of. It may have happened before but “widespread”?

[Passe La Puck]