Quenville, Towes, Kane, Keith and the HHOF

[the_only_turek_fan]

Does this hurt their chances of being inducted into the HHOF?

Is there a way to stop them from getting inducted?

I think this is the only real punishment the hockey world has left for them. You can’t take away the championships, you can’t take away the millions of dollars, but this is one thing that the hockey world can do and I think given the circumstances and the lack of remorse from the three players especially the HHOF committee needs to seriously consider this.

Didn’t baseball do this with Pete Rose?

[GordonBlue]

So you're going to punish the players more than the worst offenders? (management)

What about all the players that knew of what Graham James did to so many kids? or did nothing when players like Aliu were racially abused?

Where do you draw the line?

And pete rose was gambling on baseball, including his own team. he's not out of the hall for not being the best person he could be.

[Flamesfan05]

Except for Quenville who had power., what are you punishing players for!

Somebody in your company committed a crime and you should be fired because you may have heard about it?

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Except for Quenville who had power., what are you punishing players for!

Somebody in your company committed a crime and you should be fired because you may have known?

If you knew and didn't do anything about it, then yes.

[Yamer]

I don't have an opinion yet regarding the Hall of Fame, but Iggy sitting outside of the NHL's Top 100 players looks more and more ludicrous each passing day.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by keenan87

If you knew and didn't do anything about it, then yes.

That’s not how life works my friend. Unless I was directly involved, If I just heard off the street and management already knew, it’s not my fault. It’s them to address it.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

That’s not how life works my friend. Unless I was directly involved, If I just heard off the street and management already knew, it’s not my fault. It’s them to address it.

Toews and Keith were part of leadership so they were directly involved. Especially with some of the allegations on what happened on the ice.

Unless being a captain doesn't mean much.

Whether you are captain or not - although, I agree with that's probably not how it works - its sad to know our society puts such low moral obligation on people. Its pretty disgusting considering this was an illegal crime.

It's this whole "doesn't affect me, so carry on" attitude is why the world has so many problems with racism, discrimination, and much more.

[malcolmk14]

It's Quenneville.

Edit: And Toews.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Nah. They’re all still going in.

[monkeyman]

Too soon to say. Let's wait and see if any more information comes out of this and see how each react to it.
Quenneville is likely already on the outside looking in.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

So you're going to punish the players more than the worst offenders? (management)

What about all the players that knew of what Graham James did to so many kids? or did nothing when players like Aliu were racially abused?

Where do you draw the line?

And pete rose was gambling on baseball, including his own team. he's not out of the hall for not being the best person he could be.

Is not getting into the Hall of Fame more punishment than basically not being able to work in the league again like the coaches and managers might be facing?

Seems more symbolic than anything.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Is not getting into the Hall of Fame more punishment than basically not being able to work in the league again like the coaches and managers might be facing?

Seems more symbolic than anything.

Yes, I'd say so.
The Hall is a huge deal to players.

The work for the already successful managers & coaches? just retire. They already have won enough and likely earned enough anyway. Would be a bigger punishment if they were young guys with their careers still ahead of them.

[bluejays]

This kind of paint brush punishment is ridiculous. I think most rational people would say that you are not responsible for your peers. So even if Kane and Toews knew, and they deny, who cares? They weren't in a position of power to be responsible for rectifying it. Sorry to be blunt but that's just the case.


Management was responsible. If anything it should be them accountable. What degree of accountability depends on the org structure and how these things were supposed to be sorted out. Does Quenneville have a history of turning a blind eye? No evidence of it yet.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by keenan87

If you knew and didn't do anything about it, then yes.

Except these players likely didn't know with certainty that a crime had been committed. Or at least we don't know for sure.

And how do they know that the victim wanted the crime reported? Or perhaps he had already reported it?

It's just a little too simplistic to say if you know anything you must run and tell someone. There are consequences to whistleblowing. If you are wrong, and you might well be, you could end up getting fired or even the subject matter of a lawsuit for slander.

Generally it is up to senior management to deal with issues of this sort.That's what they get paid to do.

[DazzlinDino]

I think there is a bigger picture, while denial into HHOF may be considered a form of punishment; I think the changes that are implemented are more important. It is important that the NHL recognizes that there needs to be a culture change at every level throughout the NHL and to implement ways to ensure there are safe environments for the players. Education is the key, I hope that the NHL will bring in keynote speakers and skilled advocates; Even those considered victims themselves. This is so that people can learn firsthand the impact that short and long-term forms of bullying have on an individual. Bullying hurts and has no place in society, especially in environments such as the NHL which should be setting the standard.

Many, many years ago a person with a disability used to be called handicapped, or disabled, these terms were very deeply hurtful stereotypes, that took away the value of each individual. To create change, people with experience, "especially those with special needs", had to get out in the community, into schools and businesses to share first-hand testimonies that helped shape the culture and attitudes of the general population. These were people often ignored, undervalued, and underappreciated and still, they stepped up despite a long uneven road with many disadvantages.

Much of this change in the '80s and '90s was funded and supported through city and government-backed programs, I know because I was one of the speakers who traveled to schools through the city and institutions throughout Western Canada for several years. I witnessed first-hand how education impacted the community and received countless letters from people whose attitudes changed.

The NHL needs to get its head out of the sand and start bringing people together, people who specialize in creating safe environments and protocols. They have the money and means to take steps to avoid potential situations like the one that happened to Kyle Beach. The key is education, every player should sit and listen to the speakers, and videos so they become equipped to be a better example.

Punishment may seem impactful but more important is education, because groupthink is still very prevalent.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Except these players likely didn't know with certainty that a crime had been committed. Or at least we don't know for sure.

And how do they know that the victim wanted the crime reported? Or perhaps he had already reported it?

It's just a little too simplistic to say if you know anything you must run and tell someone. There are consequences to whistleblowing. If you are wrong, and you might well be, you could end up getting fired or even the subject matter of a lawsuit for slander.

Generally it is up to senior management to deal with issues of this sort.That's what they get paid to do.

They also would have no idea what management did about the situation. It could have been investigated, dealt with, completely finished.
They likely didn't even know that meeting of management happened.
The players are quite a few layers away from the situation and it's unfair to expect them to have dealt with it.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by fleury

This kind of paint brush punishment is ridiculous. I think most rational people would say that you are not responsible for your peers. So even if Kane and Toews knew, and they deny, who cares? They weren't in a position of power to be responsible for rectifying it.

I think peoples' feelings towards the then-Hawks leadership group has more to do with their ability to affect Beach's day to day life and the actions of people in the locker room, i.e., calling him a f****t, asking him if he missed his boyfriend Brad, making blowjob jokes, and so on. That, one would assume, is torture for someone who's gone through what Beach did. If all of that is true, then they do bear their share of responsibility.

[Kipper_3434]

Management is being taken care of. If Beech presses harassment charges against players, then they can punish the players. No one cares about the hhof.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Management is being taken care of. If Beech presses harassment charges against players, then they can punish the players. No one cares about the hhof.

Lol that’s not the same if they participated and harassed him

So far nothing of sort

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Lol that’s not the same if they participated and harassed him

So far nothing of sort

Was that supposed to be intelligible?