Do you consider "homemaker" to be a job?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I do have to say that my kids' quality of life is enhanced because I've been fortunate to be able to work from home for their whole school lives. I know not everyone has that opportunity, and there is solid benefit to having a parent home with them if a parent stays home for the kids.

It will be interesting in the Post-Pandemic world to see what comes of having more people and parents working from home more than we've seen in the past.

How that might change the dynamics of home life.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Sliver

$350 a month is nothing. Somebody making minimum wage earns that in less than three days. You're not going to keep a 45 year old person out of the workforce so you save $350/month. That doesn't even make sense.

Also, we don't get the cleaner in weekly. It's every second week. We clean on the in between weeks.

But yeah, I know about laundry, groceries, property care, etc. because my wife and I do all those things, too. We do EVERYTHING a homemaker does and waaaaay more.

It's not really nothing, its 4,200 dollars a year or 42,000 dollars a decade to pay someone something you can do yourself, or rather most people have to do it themselves because it's an extravagant expense for the lazy

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

If we are strictly speaking about a homemaker who stays at home AFTER the kids started school, then yes, that is leechy. Sorry to say.

I think after all your kids can drive, or ride public transportation alone (if you live in a city) is a better distinction than school.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by stone hands

It's not really nothing, its 4,200 dollars a year or 42,000 dollars a decade to pay someone something you can do yourself, or rather most people have to do it themselves because it's an extravagant expense for the lazy

I look at it as buying more time with the family. Instead of cleaning bathrooms we do fun stuff together. It's outstanding value.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Some people went right from their moms to their girlfriends and it shows.

Yeah, it's a huge red flag dating wise if the person never lived on their own at least for a while.

When you're living on your own you find out right quick that if you don't do something/chore yourself, it isn't getting done. Your view of value on that shifts pretty quickly unless you enjoy living in filth.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I look at it as buying more time with the family. Instead of cleaning bathrooms we do fun stuff together. It's outstanding value.

That’s how I view someone working less to tackle that.

$350/month is 5.8 times my monthly entertainment budget.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by stone hands

It's not really nothing, its 4,200 dollars a year or 42,000 dollars a decade to pay someone something you can do yourself, or rather most people have to do it themselves because it's an extravagant expense for the lazy

Well that also encompasses almost anything that we pay people to do for us. You can cook for yourself, cut your own hair and rotate your own tires. Some people do some of those things, and some people do none of them but instead pay others to do them.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

That’s how I view someone working less to tackle that.

$350/month is 5.8 times my monthly entertainment budget.

I hear you. I mean, I haven't had a house cleaner my whole life or anything, either. Could be something you see more value in at a different stage of your life. Or maybe you never will. That's okay. I buy my clothes used from Man of Distinction and Jeans Addiction. I cut my hair and my son's hair. Do lots of car maintenance and home maintenance myself. On it goes. We all spend our money in different ways.

I just know I would not appreciate spending my money so a fellow adult could live the life I get to lead four weeks a year when I'm on vacation, but they're living it 365 days a year forever on my back. If that's appealing to others, that's okay, but I'm still going to c0ck an eyebrow at it.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I buy my clothes used from Man of Distinction and Jeans Addiction.

Finally you are of some use to me

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Finally you are of some use to me

At Man of Distinction, tell them "Big Al" sent you and you'll get 15% off.

It's in Avenida, BTW. Great store.

[8sPOT]

It's a murky subject because in some families someone is a designated 'caretaker' or 'homemaker' as the other spouse earns the income, but in this day and age that's not the norm anymore.

I'm a single parent so I work full time and then do what I gotta do for my son, whether thats house cleaning, bringing him to hockey, paying for hockey, getting groceries, cooking meals, etc.

I don't think its a job because you dont earn an income, simple as that for me. Its more a kin to a hobby than an actual job. Plus, having kids is a choice, earning some kind of income is not usually a choice. You can leave a job at any time, but thats not what this is. You can't just leave your kids and get new ones.

Just my thoughts. Not trying to offend or anything like that.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Sliver

At Man of Distinction, tell them "Big Al" sent you and you'll get 15% off.

It's in Avenida, BTW. Great store.

That's what the google's just told me

[woob]

Originally Posted by Sliver

$350 a month is nothing. Somebody making minimum wage earns that in less than three days. You're not going to keep a 45 year old person out of the workforce so you save $350/month. That doesn't even make sense.

Also, we don't get the cleaner in weekly. It's every second week. We clean on the in between weeks.

But yeah, I know about laundry, groceries, property care, etc. because my wife and I do all those things, too. We do EVERYTHING a homemaker does and waaaaay more.

Right, which is why I said it answers a portion of your question. You've already deemed that a portion of your house work is worth $350/month. So you're already assigning value to that. If you were a household who also assigned value in other areas of house work, with the intention of maybe keeping evenings and weekends more open and free of house work, then you'd add that on top of the $350. Some people hire out cooking and grocery shopping. Some people hire out before/after school care. Etc.

I know many people who's household is double high income earning and see value in a nanny to run a house (with school aged children) so they can work. I also know many people who choose the opposite.

But a Sliver thread rarely follows honest debate, so I know what I'm getting myself into here

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by woob

Right, which is why I said it answers a portion of your question. You've already deemed that a portion of your house work is worth $350/month. So you're already assigning value to that. If you were a household who also assigned value in other areas of house work, with the intention of maybe keeping evenings and weekends more open and free of house work, then you'd add that on top of the $350. Some people hire out cooking and grocery shopping. Some people hire out before/after school care. Etc.

I know many people who's household is double high income earning and see value in a nanny to run a house (with school aged children) so they can work. I also know many people who choose the opposite.

But a Sliver thread rarely follows honest debate, so I know what I'm getting myself into here

I'd say he's one of the most honest on this site. Sorta wears his heart on his sleeve type of guy.

[CliffFletcher]

One thing that’s being overlooked is that once kids get older they can do a fair share of the housework themselves. Folding laundry, dusting, setting the table, tidying, putting groceries away are all within the capabilities of 10 year olds. By 12 you can add washing dishes, vacuuming, cleaning bathrooms, helping make dinner, taking out the garbage, and shovelling.

My wife had a stay-at-home mom who did all of the household cleaning and chores, and my wife admits it contributed to her being an irresponsible slob when she moved out on her own. Whereas my mom worked, so I was doing all that stuff on my own since I was a kid. We’ve taken my family’s approach with our own kids because we don’t want them to be useless.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I'd say he's one of the most honest on this site. Sorta wears his heart on his sleeve type of guy.

Dishonest? haha, yeah, that's definitely not something I've been accused of too often. Surprised I come across that way to him.

[TorqueDog]

This conversation can't be had without:
i) differentiating what a "job" is versus what "work" is; and,
ii) removing any emotional investment from the gendered perception of the role of Homemaker. Men and women can both perform Homemaker duties or be in the role exclusively.


Being a Homemaker is absolutely work, and depending on what falls under the responsibilities of said Homemaker -- are there kids, animals, how much house is there to clean, laundry, groceries, cooking, etc. -- all will determine just how much work it is.

I look at being in a relationship (married, in my case) as being on a team. The team has common goals and needs to pull in the same direction, but different people on a team can fulfill different tasks in service of those goals.

The idea of a Homemaker is really an agreement between the two people on that team about what tasks need to be fulfilled for the good of the team when one of those team members isn't -- or doesn't want to be -- employed.
- The person that is in the Homemaker role will keep the home in order.
- The other person must then take on the Provider role; they will secure the income required to ensure that the needs (and as many wants as feasible) of everyone involved can be met.

This is independent of the personal relationship between the two people.

If the person holding the sole Provider role on the team finds themselves in a situation where they are not able to bring in enough resources to keep things going as they are:
- The team may need to make do with less and the person in the Homemaker role will also need to find ways to keep things going with lesser resources available if they are going to continue in that role full time; or,
- A dedicated Homemaker role may no longer be viable. The person holding the Homemaker role may need to go out and get a job to earn income, no longer exclusively filling the Homemaker role.

However, the tasks of the Homemaker role must still be performed, so both people now need to agree how each will fulfill those duties when both are working, if there is a proportional split based on commitment of time to their employment, incomes, etc. This is where things usually go sideways. There is virtually always one person who does more 'Homemaker' tasks than the other, and if there isn't an agreement on why that is, then conflict arises. The role of Homemaker is often very underappreciated.


All of this is to say that being a Homemaker is not a job in the sense that it isn't employment. It generates no income, there are no taxes to be paid, there's no taxable benefits, you can't claim EI, you can't write off expenses, and no one is going to give you a loan based off of your 'job' as a Homemaker. To address the hilariously on-point Curb Your Enthusiasm clip: If you're in a relationship where only one person works, then while you might colloquially refer to the household finances as "our" money, it is only in the 'team' sense, but not in terms of what you bring to the relationship: you are still an adult dependent where financial support is concerned.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Dishonest? haha, yeah, that's definitely not something I've been accused of too often. Surprised I come across that way to him.

LOL. I'd suspect you get accused of being TOO honest more often.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I look at it as buying more time with the family. Instead of cleaning bathrooms we do fun stuff together. It's outstanding value.

It's funny, because that's the same view I take with having my wife stay home... Between the time she spends with the kids and the less time we otherwise have to spend doing 'housework', it's a way for her (and by extension, all of us) to spend more time together.

It's entirely up to her, but the only reason I would want her to work after all of the kids are in school is if she's bored out of her mind and wants something to do, whether for fulfillment, or simply to occupy her time. But it certainly won't be because I think she's a "parasite"...

To me, the more baffling thing is not wanting to provide that option to the person you love because of some tally of chores you're keeping, like a score.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I look at it as buying more time with the family. Instead of cleaning bathrooms we do fun stuff together. It's outstanding value.

From your posts you in general agree that spending money to reduce the amount of labour required to run your life is a good use of money

And

That overall reducing the amount of labour you do for money is positive

Yet the homemaker you view as parisitic.

Your only issue with home making appear to be that the labour reduction is unequally distributed.

On the unequal distribution of the labour reduction I think the relative scale of incomes makes a big difference. The larger the income difference the more it makes sense for one person to stay home. And depending on the income difference you might be asking someone to commit to 40 years of additional labour to save you 5 years of labour once you account for all of the associated work expenses and the extra labour you need to put in at home. You also don’t account for the ability to work additional time at work to increase the all ready higher earning persons potential.

So overall it’s symbiotic rather than parisitic and even from an individual perspective my total workload is reduced compared to the alternative.

To me it seems more unreasonable to have two people working in order to purchase luxury goods. It’s a far greater luxury to have a person who can deal with all the life challenges.

Obviously this thread is full of privileged people who are making choices on how to allocate surplus money/time as opposed to having two working parents out of necessity.