Jacob Markstrom (is better than Cam Talbot)

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I never thought I'd see arguments for Talbot being a better goalie than Markstrom... what's next? Maybe Bennett being better than Gaudreau or Tkachuk once they re-sign?

Across 30 playoff starts with three different teams, Talbot is 2.45/.923 (including Calgary).

In 14 playoff starts with Vancouver, Markstrom is at 2.85/.919. His GAA was 0.1 worse than his regular season, his save % went up by .001.

Look, I’m not pining for the halcyon days of Cam Talbot (though it’s worth noting, he is nearly half a goal better in the playoffs).

But if we were going to commit an extra three years and $25M, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that the guy be better in, I don’t know, any statistical category vs the dude who was already here.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It was one game and Markstrom didn't let in any "Bad" goals. You'd love for him to make a big save on Puljujarvi on the 4-2 goal, but it's not a soft goal.

Last season Markstrom was good, outside of the stretch where he was hurt / returned from his injury.

Thing is, other goalies return from injury and play kind of hurt too. If we adjust their stats to remove their bad games, they look fantastic.

I don’t disagree with pointing to the injury but this is pro sports and injuries are a fact of life. Markstrom needs to have a better season than last year IMO.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Markstrom needs to have a better season than last year IMO.

I don't think anyone will disagree with that. There weren't too many Flames last year who didn't have a bad year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Across 30 playoff starts with three different teams, Talbot is 2.45/.923 (including Calgary).

In 14 playoff starts with Vancouver, Markstrom is at 2.85/.919. His GAA was 0.1 worse than his regular season, his save % went up by .001.

Look, I’m not pining for the halcyon days of Cam Talbot (though it’s worth noting, he is nearly half a goal better in the playoffs).

But if we were going to commit an extra three years and $25M, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that the guy be better in, I don’t know, any statistical category vs the dude who was already here.

Talbot keeps getting released or traded away. He’s been on 5 teams. There was a bidding war for Markstrom. Are all GMs stupid? Or do they see through the counting stats for goalies?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Talbot keeps getting released or traded away. He’s been on 5 teams. There was a bidding war for Markstrom. Are all GMs stupid? Or do they see through the counting stats for goalies?

The Oilers did everything they could to break Talbot. They played him like he was Kiprusoff.

The Flyers had Carter Hart ready to go.

The Flames are run by Brad Treliving.

I said this in the season opening GT - Erik Gudbranson was drafted 9 picks ahead of Cam Fowler.

NHL executives barely know more about player evaluation than we do.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The Oilers did everything they could to break Talbot. They played him like he was Kiprusoff.

The Flyers had Carter Hart ready to go.

The Flames are run by Brad Treliving.

I said this in the season opening GT - Erik Gudbranson was drafted 9 picks ahead of Cam Fowler.

NHL executives barely know more about player evaluation than we do.

18 year olds - how they are going to turn out is not an exact science.

with the last sentence, you're just embarrassing yourself.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

18 year olds - how they are going to turn out is not an exact science.

with the last sentence, you're just embarrassing yourself.

Cam Fowler was the presumptive 3rd overall pick the entire year leading up to his draft.

Then he wasn’t, for like 36 hours, and he spent the rest of his career being a vastly superior player.

This board would’ve called that in the moment, and they would have been right. They probably did.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Cam Fowler was the presumptive 3rd overall pick the entire year leading up to his draft.

Then he wasn’t, for like 36 hours, and he spent the rest of his career being a vastly superior player.

This board would’ve called that in the moment, and they would have been right. They probably did.

Proof that fans are smarter than GMs and scouts!

[GioforPM]

TBF, Gudbranson was drafted by Dale “forgot to qualify RFAs” Tallon, who also fired Deboer in favour of Kevin Dineen, and Gallant in favour of Rowe.

He did win GM of the year once though.

[Knightslayer]

How much does a goalie coach effect a veteran goalies play? I've always wondered that.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Talbot keeps getting released or traded away. He’s been on 5 teams. There was a bidding war for Markstrom. Are all GMs stupid? Or do they see through the counting stats for goalies?

I chuckled. A “bidding war” … between Holland and Treliving

Your narrative relies on a trade deadline stop in Philly where he was not really in the plans, and his short stint here

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

How much does a goalie coach effect a veteran goalies play? I've always wondered that.

Hard to say but it's pretty evident that Ian Clark is a really good goaltending coach and coaching always matters to a degree.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I chuckled. A “bidding war” … between Holland and Treliving

Your narrative relies on a trade deadline stop in Philly where he was not really in the plans, and his short stint here

You think only Edmonton and Calgary were interested in Markstrom. Pull the other one.

[Toonage]

Calgary, Edmonton, Carolina and (naturally) Vancouver were all in on Markstrom as I recall. Might have been others.

[Strange Brew]

There are no trophies for winning UFA bidding wars unfortunately.

It would be nice if Markstrom's play on the ice would render this point moot.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There are no trophies for winning UFA bidding wars unfortunately.

It would be nice if Markstrom's play on the ice would render this point moot.

It will. Someone has twice posted the stats from last year that show Markstrom’s stats were cratered by a rough middle after his injury and turned back up once Sutter arrived.

He’s a solid starter, people just have a habit of trying to rewrite history to give themselves something extra to complain about when any player shows any sign of weakness.

[Moneyhands23]

He has been so average. Sucks as I was so stoked on the signing. Hope he turns things around

[Kipper_3434]

Not a markstrom fan but we aren't going to win many games by only scoring 2 goals. He's been doing his job and keeping us in games, not actively losing them but got outplayed last night by an actual elite goalie. Markstrom reminds me of Crawford, consistently good, rarely bad, rarely elite. Not the kind of guy that puts the star in "starter".

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It will. Someone has twice posted the stats from last year that show Markstrom’s stats were cratered by a rough middle after his injury and turned back up once Sutter arrived.

He’s a solid starter, people just have a habit of trying to rewrite history to give themselves something extra to complain about when any player shows any sign of weakness.

Lol

Rewrite history? Markstrom has career stats that are decidedly average. That is history. No need to rewrite it.

His stats last year on the whole were below average. Many goalies have hot and cold streaks.

He had one decently above average year and he got paid, he’s the 8th highest paid goalie in the league

Last year, he was below average, but with excuses and with a story to tell. Yep, he had lots of great games. And lots of stinkers. Pros get paid for their consistency, which does end up showing in their stats over time

And for the record, I do think he is a solid starter. A good goalie, but replaceable among his tier. I think he will improve statistically under Sutter to the point where some people will be very pleased.

But I also think that the first goal last night shouldn’t go in, through the gap between his blocker and his pad. And that contributed to the team taking one point and not two (and Anaheim getting 2, not zero)

[ricardodw]

31 year old goaltender 8 years in the league. 132-137 2.78 GAA .910 Sv%

Hockey reference does a Similarity Scores where they compare Goalies careers based on best adjusted point shares.

On Markstrom's chart he compares closely to Ondrej Pavelec who believe it or not delivered 4 good seasons over his career similar to Markstrom. At their peak 4 years they are in a dead heat with Pavelic delivering 41.2 adjust pts and Markstrom 41.0

Yes Markstrom looks to be a legit NHL starter but to have a significant impact with the Flames he would have to play better than he has so far in his career and time/age is not on his side.

Jonas Hiller ( as the best Flame goalie since Kipper) would have had a better career than Markstrom using the best yr adjusted pts measurement. He was 32 as the Flames playoff goalie against the Canucks the last time the Flames won a playoff series. He played 26 more mediocre NHL games as a 33 year old.