Mayor wants street cameras

[worth]

Some good points Worth. However I would say that we are already there. Between convenience stores, malls, ATMs, some LRT platforms, traffic cameras, etc, we are already being taped several times each and every day. The difference here is that this time it's the gov't who would have control over the cameras, and not some guy who owns the local Mac's.

That's why I'm Ok with it. And as I mentioned, my recent run in with being a victim of a crime makes me think I'd rather be taped every day than have to go through the whole process again.

Yes, you are right. We are pretty much there. If you use plastic everywhere, we know the exact time and place where you made the purchase. And even my local pub installed a video camera just before christmas, which was really strange for me to see.

And yeah, I understand your situation. My friend recently had his car broken into at Southland Station, and I have had my car broken into infront of my house, but for me I can't justify it in the end.

[worth]

Originally Posted by SpitFire40

WTF, if there are camera's in the city how is that an invasion of your privacy?? You're in a public area.

So big brother will see you pickin your nose or something, big deal.

Again, it has nothing to do with what i'm doing, it has to do with the principle of it which I do not agree with.

"I have nothing to hide" is not a good excuse in my mind. Just because the government will be seeing me picking my nose isn't the point at all. They shouldn't be doing it in the first place is how I feel.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Burninator

What was happening in London was that some of the cameras were able to look into people residences. And I think the government was not accommodating in moving them or repositioning them. With all this new technology of high resolution cameras and long range zooming, it would be impossible for these cameras to not have the ability to look into someones house.

So close your blinds.

People are just way too overly sensitive these days. They want the government to do everything for them, but they don't want to make any concessions to help them get that done.

Maybe it's just the exhibitionist in me (I have one?) or I've grown apathetic, (that would be sad for me, actually,) but I just don't see the big deal. If we want something, (safer streets) we have to give something back to get it, (people videotaping you peeing behind the dumpster on the street).

[SpitFire40]

Originally Posted by worth

Again, it has nothing to do with what i'm doing, it has to do with the principle of it which I do not agree with.

"I have nothing to hide" is not a good excuse in my mind. Just because the government will be seeing me picking my nose isn't the point at all. They shouldn't be doing it in the first place is how I feel.

Explain why they shouldn't be doing it though, not just "Oh well, I don't agree with that" Explain why, because I see nothing but positives here.

The more eyes on the general public, where alot of scum and bad deeds take place the better. If you aren't doing anything bad you've really got nothing to worry about. I know I for one would feel just a bit safer walking around downtown knowing that the eyes are watching my back for me in a way.

[4X4]

Wow worth, I think you're going overboard. You see cameras as the first step? What about picture ID and SINs? And what is the difference between the municipal government having a sanctioned tool for crime fighting, and private companies like google sending satellites into space for everyone elses pleasure?

Sorry man, but you just come off as a government hater of sorts.

[worth]

I believe that I should be able to defend myself, which by the way is nearly impossible in this country. If someone breaks into your home and you shoot him, you'll end up in court defending your actions.

I don't need the government to look out for me by installing cameras on every street corner. I've already explained that installing cameras will lead to other things. ID cards. Microchips and GPS tracking. Why should I have to let the government know every waking hour where I go?

This is supposed to be a free country, yet now I can't drive without being caught on film by a traffic camera somewhere, and soon I won't be able to walk down the street without being watched.

Another example:

Currently it might only be video. Look whats happening in the UK:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1466734.ece

Now people are not only being monitored, the cameras are fitted with loudspeakers and tell you when you do something wrong. Do I really need the government to watch over my every move and tell me when I did something bad?

One thing leads to another and to another. I don't want to be monitored. I was told I was born into a free country, but the day I have CCTV cameras yelling at me because I littered, I know I am no longer free.

[worth]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Wow worth, I think you're going overboard. You see cameras as the first step? What about picture ID and SINs? And what is the difference between the municipal government having a sanctioned tool for crime fighting, and private companies like google sending satellites into space for everyone elses pleasure?

Sorry man, but you just come off as a government hater of sorts.

There is a line between crime fighting and being constantly monitored in the name of safety.

In our current society, some form of identification is needed. It wouldn't work without it.

The images google has are actually avaliable to the public through a private company called space imaging. I don't think google has their own satellite.

The difference is, google earth is a snapshot of a place and time, and the resolution is not that great. I don't think you can recgonize you neighbor on google earth. Cameras can pretty well distinguish people from other people.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by FireFly

So close your blinds.

People are just way too overly sensitive these days. They want the government to do everything for them, but they don't want to make any concessions to help them get that done.

Maybe it's just the exhibitionist in me (I have one?) or I've grown apathetic, (that would be sad for me, actually,) but I just don't see the big deal. If we want something, (safer streets) we have to give something back to get it, (people videotaping you peeing behind the dumpster on the street).

If you had a camera outside of your window that you knew could see in, I have a feeling that your blinds would indeed be closed. Closed all the time. I can't speak for everyone but I would not feel comfortable knowing that someone could see into my private residence. It's not that I am up to anything illegal or weird, I just don't like the idea of it.

And I especially don't like it, if it's the government. Governments have a history of stepping over their boundary's and violating people rights. Who will police the police? And don't say Coast Guard, because we don't have one.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Wow worth, I think you're going overboard. You see cameras as the first step? What about picture ID and SINs? And what is the difference between the municipal government having a sanctioned tool for crime fighting, and private companies like google sending satellites into space for everyone elses pleasure?

Sorry man, but you just come off as a government hater of sorts.

Where is Looger when you need him? He would be right behind worth on this topic.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by FireFly

So close your blinds.

People are just way too overly sensitive these days. They want the government to do everything for them, but they don't want to make any concessions to help them get that done.

Maybe it's just the exhibitionist in me (I have one?) or I've grown apathetic, (that would be sad for me, actually,) but I just don't see the big deal. If we want something, (safer streets) we have to give something back to get it, (people videotaping you peeing behind the dumpster on the street).

Well then prepare to be sad because that's about as apathetic as you can get.

Would you really not care if someone set up a camera that looked right into your house?

Setting up a camera to focus on some known location of criminal activity is one thing, but the ability to look into the home of a private citizen is quite another.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but have all those cameras brought down the level of crime in London?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Burninator

If you had a camera outside of your window that you knew could see in, I have a feeling that your blinds would indeed be closed. Closed all the time. I can't speak for everyone but I would not feel comfortable knowing that someone could see into my private residence. It's not that I am up to anything illegal or weird, I just don't like the idea of it.

And I especially don't like it, if it's the government. Governments have a history of stepping over their boundary's and violating people rights. Who will police the police? And don't say Coast Guard, because we don't have one.

Wrong again!!!!!

http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/

And if you meant we don't have them in Calgary, at least we've got the navy to watch the police.

[worth]

I'm too lazy to look it up, but have all those cameras brought down the level of crime in London?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2071397.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2071496.stm

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Burninator

If you had a camera outside of your window that you knew could see in, I have a feeling that your blinds would indeed be closed. Closed all the time. I can't speak for everyone but I would not feel comfortable knowing that someone could see into my private residence. It's not that I am up to anything illegal or weird, I just don't like the idea of it.

And I especially don't like it, if it's the government. Governments have a history of stepping over their boundary's and violating people rights. Who will police the police? And don't say Coast Guard, because we don't have one.

Bah. I have drunks outside my window peeing behind the dumpster. If my blinds are closed all the time, how can I laugh and point at them?

Are we also forgetting that this is the police and municipal government we're talking about. It's not the Canadian version of the FBI here. Do you think these cameras are going to be in residential areas? Likely no. Are they going to be aimed at street level in downtown? Likely yes. Do people live at street level in downtown? Ummmm... I can only think of about two residences in downtown where people live at street level and frankly, their blinds are closed all the time anyways due to the sheer number of strangers passing them.

They aren't planning on putting a camera on every block in every area, just in high crime areas. I'm pretty sure if you lived in one of those areas, your blinds are closed all the time anyways and you'd be grateful for anything that would help clear the crime away from your front door.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Well then prepare to be sad because that's about as apathetic as you can get.

Would you really not care if someone set up a camera that looked right into your house?

How do I know there isn't already one there? If someone thinks I'm that exciting, they can have-at-'er. They'll get bored soon enough as I close my blinds as soon as I'm about to do something exciting anyways. (Or when the sun is blasting me in the summer.)

THere's a large difference between setting up a camera that CAN look into my house as it sweeps by and setting one up which has that as it's sole purpose. WHo would watch that at all times? How do they man these things? There is no way that I can be watched at all times because you'd need someone to watch me... and who's watching that person? Get a grip people! Such a system would never work!

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by fotze

Well as long as these cameras are used to nab those people who walk when the hand is flashing "cause it is cold", then I am all for it.

Ha ha. No doubt. The first thing I thought of was getting a camera focused on Crack Mac's and a little side bonus would be to capture those scofflaws who dare defy the flashing hand. Catch 'em on tape, zoom in and put their sneaky faces on the internet!

Seriously though, if they did set up a camera focussing on that place, wouldn't the criminals just walk around the corner and do whatever they were doing? Makes sense to me. And then they might set up another one "around the corner" and away we go to having the whole city under surveillance.

I had a "Big Brother" moment at Stampede Station once. Some dude was having a snooze and a voice came over the loudspeakers that said "hey you there sleeping at Stampede Station, move it along. Get up, wake up, you at Stampede Station sleeping on the platform, get up, please leave at Stampede Station sleeping on your jacket". This went on for some time. The guy didn't budge. I assume they sent some Transit Dick over to roust him out of there but I wasn't around for the finale.

I knew the cameras were there but I hadn't ever heard the person. Talk about your boring job.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Wrong again!!!!!

http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/

And if you meant we don't have them in Calgary, at least we've got the navy to watch the police.

I actually did mean in Calgary. It was an obscure Simpson's reference.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Bah. I have drunks outside my window peeing behind the dumpster. If my blinds are closed all the time, how can I laugh and point at them?

Are we also forgetting that this is the police and municipal government we're talking about. It's not the Canadian version of the FBI here. Do you think these cameras are going to be in residential areas? Likely no. Are they going to be aimed at street level in downtown? Likely yes. Do people live at street level in downtown? Ummmm... I can only think of about two residences in downtown where people live at street level and frankly, their blinds are closed all the time anyways due to the sheer number of strangers passing them.

They aren't planning on putting a camera on every block in every area, just in high crime areas. I'm pretty sure if you lived in one of those areas, your blinds are closed all the time anyways and you'd be grateful for anything that would help clear the crime away from your front door.

Well in London some of the cameras are mounted quite high. Around the second or third storey height on a building. Which could easily see into someones residence. Calgary won't have the same problem as London if they put up a couple cameras in the core, but eventually it could turn that way and cameras could everywhere. I would still want the option to have my blinds open or not without a camera pointed in.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by worth

Just because i'm in a public area doens't give the city or any government the right to monitor my every move.

It doesn't have anything to do with doing things that are private. It has to do with my basic right to freedom.

You are being introduced to the control grid.

There a thousands upon thousands of cameras in London. Nobody notices them anymore. Is this a good thing?

Why wouldn't these cameras lead to other things such as facial recgonition technology? Is that a good thing? Cameras scanning every person looking for the bad guys?

Next to be implemented: National ID cards. Lets implement those so wherever you go, you have to use it to gain access to a building. Therefore, you have to have a background check to get one and check out ok, criminals, terrorists etc will have a tough time with that.

Then lets implement microchip tracking. This way, we don't need cameras at all. We'll just chip everyone and we can track everyone with GPS and a computer. We'll know exactly where everyone goes 24 hours a day. Pay with your chip, do everything with your chip.

Extreme examples? Perhaps, but if you think the introduction of cameras to monitor people stops there, I have to ask, why would it?

What about x rays? Would people be adverse to that? We put xray devices on light poles to scan people to see if their carrying weapons.

It's all the same to me and I see cameras as the first step towards a worse tomorrow, but maybe thats just me.

Soon enough your cell phone will have you pegged down to the centimetre, which will have many great benefits. You'd better stick to a soup can and a string though.

[worth]

I can do without the insults, thanks.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Well in London some of the cameras are mounted quite high. Around the second or third storey height on a building. Which could easily see into someones residence. Calgary won't have the same problem as London if they put up a couple cameras in the core, but eventually it could turn that way and cameras could everywhere. I would still want the option to have my blinds open or not without a camera pointed in.

Eventually you'll have a microchip implanted in your skin so it won't matter anyways...