COVID-19 Vaccine Talk, 2nd Dose

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I understand the danger in framing natural immunity the way it was above, but I hope that we don't start lumping people who have had covid into the anti-vaxx bucket. That bucket already holds a pretty diverse group.

Natural immunity does convey the antibodies of equal to or greater than one shot, and that should probably be legally identified so that they only have to take one more shot to fill the mandate.

Did you read the article ??

1/3 of those Covid positive did not develop significant immunity. Also, mild illness didnt seem to offer great immuntiy either.

COVID + Vaccine offers 2x the protection of only having COVID.

[Manhattanboy]

I’m 5 months out from second dose and am hoping third shots will be available by December. Might have to go to the US to get a booster.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Knut

A good write up on "Natural immunity" and the danger of the term. It also provides some good information regarding Natural Immunity vs. VAccine immunity.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/nat...nity-covid-19/

Drama school dropout Larry the Cable guy confidently talking about the effectiveness of post-infectious vs. vaccine-induced immunity really says a lot about the current discourse.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I’m 5 months out from second dose and am hoping third shots will be available by December. Might have to go to the US to get a booster.

You will have to lie to get that booster in US. Unless you are over 65.
Which is fine.
But it's not available here either, at this time, to general adult population.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

You will have to lie to get that booster in US. Unless you are over 65.
Which is fine.
But it's not available here either, at this time, to general adult population.

I am hoping it will be more widely available within the next few months.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I’m 5 months out from second dose and am hoping third shots will be available by December. Might have to go to the US to get a booster.

Where (province) so you live and are you mixed doses on your first two shots?

[Harry Lime]

I didn't read the link to sciencebasedmedicine.org. That sounds a lot like babyjesussciencemedicinebelieve.org. I went by what you posted, which I guessed was the most salient part, or you wouldn't have posted it. Sorry I missed out on Larry the Cable guy.

Not developing resistance after coming down with a virus would be historically unusual. Covid is weird though, so I guess.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I didn't read the link to sciencebasedmedicine.org. That sounds a lot like babyjesussciencemedicinebelieve.org. I went by what you posted, which I guessed was the most salient part, or you wouldn't have posted it. Sorry I missed out on Larry the Cable guy.

Not developing resistance after coming down with a virus would be historically unusual. Covid is weird though, so I guess.

Probably should read first before responding like this. Larry the Cable guy is not really the point. Not developing resistance after Covid is not claimed, but a portion (1/3) do not develop long term resistance.

[photon]

It sounds like the opposite of "babyjesussciencemedicinebelieve.org"...

The article has all the links to the relevant scientific research.

[TorqueDog]

Yeah, 'sciencebasedmedicine.org' is a well-known 'good actor' in the discourse around science-based medicine and the evidence surrounding it. It's quite the opposite of 'babyjesuspraisethelawdmedicine.org' or whatever a few posters think it is.

[Harry Lime]

I'll read it, although it tracks that the third booster also infers lack of long term resistance. I'm hoping for a direct comparison of natural vs. vaccine effectiveness in the article, as it concerns that specifically. As a rule, I have slowed down my clicking on links if they sound a little too insistent that they should be believed.

edit :

The bottom line: Contrary to the narrative being pushed, for COVID-19 “natural immunity” is not superior to vaccine-induced immunity, which is less variable and more reliable. Even if it were, yet again, I must emphasize that vaccine-induced immunity has a key advantage over post-infection immunity. It doesn’t require you to suffer through the illness and face the risks of severe disease and death from the disease to acquire it.

Ok, so the article is almost entirely a rebuttal of misuse of the term and reality of natural immunity. It doesn't discount the effectiveness of a combination post-disease/vaccination. Directly under the citation attached to the quote on 1/3 of post-disease patients not having effective anti-bodies, is a link to a post-disease/vaccination study.

I just think that post vaccine/vaccination should be considered for the passport mandate, and post vaccine/vaccination/2nd shot is an unnecessary risk.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Not developing resistance after coming down with a virus would be historically unusual. Covid is weird though, so I guess.

There's always a percentage of people who don't seroconvert after an illness (and to be fair, the same can happen with vaccination). And in this case, it seems that it's directly correlated with the viral load. This image shows the effect pretty well. So it's quite possible for someone to have a PCR-confirmed positive and not have antibodies because they had a low viral load (which means the test's cycle count had to be high to detect it).

[Bill Bumface]

So Harry Lime, seems like the issue is more complicated than you first presented it. Maybe its reasonable, and a hell of a lot more simple to just require "Covid survivors" to get 2 shots regardless?

Although I'm really curious how your proposed "Proof of Disease" passport system would work.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

So Harry Lime, seems like the issue is more complicated than you first presented it. Maybe its reasonable, and a hell of a lot more simple to just require "Covid survivors" to get 2 shots regardless?

Although I'm really curious how your proposed "Proof of Disease" passport system would work.

What I was presenting is that the issue is more complicated than it has been presented. I don't see a point for overkill when it comes to introducing pathogen to a body, if it's not needed. There are several posters here that have presented a case for post disease + shot.

There are tests for antibodies ect. I don't think that it would be hard to add that stipulation to the passport system electronically. It's simply an alteration to existing data, as long as the person went in and got tested.

Anyway, I think if that was an option, you would see more people that have had covid, but not had the shot, go in and get that first shot.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Where (province) so you live and are you mixed doses on your first two shots?

My assumption is that he wants to get a shot due to waning immunity after 120 ish days. Moderna apparently holds up quite well even after 120 days, so I'm going to assume double Pfizer or a mix.

[peter12]

Why are people still pretending like getting the vaccine is some kind of risk? The risks of serious complications are greater than the chance of getting struck by lightning.

[opendoor]

Based on UK data, in people under 65 Pfizer is still showing 75-80% efficacy at 5+ months with the longer interval. And against hospitalization it's more like 96-97% for that age group. So I don't know that younger people necessarily need to be running out and surreptitiously getting 3rd doses.

The half life for COVID antibodies seems to be somewhere around 2 months. Combine that with the fact that the longer interval produces about 2x as many antibodies as the 3-week one, and it means that 6 months post 2nd dose in the US or Israel is more like 8 months post 2nd dose in Canada.

[getbak]

Want to board a plane, train, or boat leaving from somewhere in Canada? You'll need to be fully vaccinated starting October 30: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fed...date-1.6201528

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau unveiled his government's mandatory vaccine policy today, a mandate that will require public servants to get their COVID-19 shots by month's end or be forced into an unpaid leave of absence. All would-be travellers must also be fully vaccinated by Oct. 30 to board a plane, train or marine vessel.

Also, anyone who works for the federal government or in a federally-regulated industry.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by peter12

Why are people still pretending like getting the vaccine is some kind of risk? The risks of serious complications are greater than the chance of getting struck by lightning.

But that's not what their wife's friend's cousin's co-worker's former roommate told them of the horrors they saw in the hospital caused by that monstrous vaccine! Its doing more damage than the common Covid cold, but the lamestream media is hiding the stats. This is all about control..now spread the word and fight against the tyrannical vaccine mandate!!!

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

My assumption is that he wants to get a shot due to waning immunity after 120 ish days. Moderna apparently holds up quite well even after 120 days, so I'm going to assume double Pfizer or a mix.

that's what I'm wondering about, too. I'm double Pfizer and I read this article yesterday

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...tudy-1.5612595

The effectiveness of the Pfizer Inc /BioNTech SE vaccine in preventing infection by the coronavirus dropped to 47% from 88% six months after the second dose, according to data published on Monday that U.S. health agencies considered when deciding on the need for booster shots.

granted I'm still not likely to need hospitalization.