2021 Blue Jays Season Thread

[Roof-Daddy]

I went back 15 years the other day to see how many teams missed the playoffs with +100 or better run differentials. There was only two of them and neither were even close to +183 like the Jays this year.

One was Boston (+130~) and Toronto (+100~)

Really pisses me off that this Jays team isn't in the playoffs.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by troutman

KC (twice), Cleveland, TB, have been in the WS recently. Not big markets.

OK doesn't mean MLB cares about that
The big markets are perennial contenders and it's designed that way.

[browna]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Not sure there is a case to be made to not bring him back.

This team almost made the payoffs in a year where they were never expected to be this close.

The club already picked up his option for next year i believe i read a couple months back.

This team, as has been mentioned many times, had to move and play their home games in 3 different ball parks in the middle of a pandemic. I cant imagine the stress on the guys with families though all that stuuf, but Montoya kept them in line and focused.

I think the job he did was commendable considering the circumstances.

Shapiro/Athkins are fans from what I can tell and likely are ging to ride with him and give him a chance to see what he can do with a very young group through a "normal" year.


I think you add all that up and there is virtually no scenario where he is fired.

There’s no question that he hasn’t done a decent job, especially as mentioned given some tough circumstances this year, but is he the guy that ultimately is going to get them to the next step which isn’t just a playoff game, but playoff series wins? Anthopolus brought back Gibby 2.0 to win because he trusted him completely to get extra out of the roster.

As I said, if the Jays stumble, for whatever reason, through April and early May 2022, with a overall pretty solid young roster that should be a year better, higher expectations based on this season, plus whatever off season moves are made, he’s firmly, as things go in sports, the one to take the blame and thus on a hot seat from the fans and non-Rogers media. If they let him go next season then it has set the season back and will be tough to recover no matter who comes in and you’ve wasted a year of development.

A nice guy, good manager, but is he the guy that Atkins and Shapiro truly think will be the guy to continue to push and mold this up and coming roster to contend like Anthopolus thought of Gibbons? If yes, then ok, that’s their call and they roll with him for years. If they aren’t sure, then this off-season is the time to bring a new voice in to get the roster immediately focused in a different mindset and higher aspirations from Game 1 in April, to help avoid any sort of player “hangover” after getting so close/ a taste this year and keep this roster’s development moving forward, not risking it stalling.

It’s not firing him for bad moves or overall performance in his time here it’s just taking the necessary step for getting this team to reach to a higher level if there is an alternative out there that they think will elevate this team higher then Montoyo can next year and for the next 2 to 3 years (I think of Joel Queneville getting hired in Chicago years back, as a total surprise replacement of Savard).

And yes, though with Rogers being cheapish, that’s certainly at play here too.

[bluejays]

While I largely understand your logic, and to a large degree it makes sense, I have to say Rogers isn't cheap. Out of all the sports, baseball coaches are probably the least important as it's less x's and o's once the game begins. So let's say they're paying him a million a year. Paying for a $4M coach isn't going to get that much better results. He's made a ton of questionable pitching decisions (a managers true game time task), and don't think for a second it's not based on a management philosophy blessed from above. It very well be mandated from above. So it's joint blame all around for this. Montoyo has kept guys loose and that should be a credit to him. I do wonder if putting more pressure and being a dick helps develop guys. Arguably, most of the roster elevated to above what the expectations were, so being objective you'd think the Manager has something to do with that.

All in all, I think management as a whole has to go back to the drawing board of when to change pitchers. If that's corrected, he's as good as anyone given this years' results. So while I was calling for his head, he seems to have the respect of the players with individual expectations exceeded, and that's hard to accomplish. Let's see what changes next year when the pressure is on and expectations are to blow the competition out more.

[flames_fan_down_under]

The John Gibbons references are all well and good. And I understand the fanbases fondness for him. But let’s not forget that he had managed the Jays for a combined 7 seasons before making the playoffs and was actually on the hot seat in 2015 before they went on their big run. Also the highest paid managers right now are all out of the playoffs. Girardi, Maddon, Mattingly, Francona, Hinch, Martinez, none in the next round.

[chummer]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1444810672278228992

[Kasi]

Also he was not that great a manager. You know who that stacked 2015 team has hitting lead off through the postseason? Ben ####ing Revere. People bringing up Gibbons have some nice rose colored glasses of his time here.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Also he was not that great a manager. You know who that stacked 2015 team has hitting lead off through the postseason? Ben ####ing Revere. People bringing up Gibbons have some nice rose colored glasses of his time here.

He had a .350 OBP and could run . What’s wrong with that for a lead off hitter ?

[browna]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Also he was not that great a manager. You know who that stacked 2015 team has hitting lead off through the postseason? Ben ####ing Revere. People bringing up Gibbons have some nice rose colored glasses of his time here.

Getting off track about Gibbons here.

My point being about Gibbons is that Anthopoulos made that surprise hire because he knew Gibbons, trusted Gibbons, and knew that he was going to get a straight shooter that Farrell wasn't, and that Gibbons style would be suited to manage the type of roster AA was trying to build as a playoff team. And, that Gibby could better handle and manage the vets that AA hoped he could add to (Price at the deadline in the second year for example) the roster at the deadlines, for the playoff windows that they had open for only another couple years (and AA knew he only had a couple years with Rogers himself left).

Bringing Gibby up only because my idle thoughts being, if Atkins and Shapiro have someone that, for all the work Montoya did in managing and navigating this past few years, they trust like AA did with Gibby, and think that this new manager can take this team further, quicker, than Montoyo, they make the change now rather then wait for Montoyo to slip at all next season.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Well Farrell left the Jays for the Red Sox, and won a World Series with the Red Sox, and it wasn’t AA letting go of Farrell, Farrell basically requested to be traded to Boston, and then AA went for Gibbons. And we all know Gibby didn’t win a WS.

Browna I honestly think how you feel about AA and his trust level with Gibby is the level of trust that Atkins and Shapiro have with Montoyo.

[browna]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Well Farrell left the Jays for the Red Sox, and won a World Series with the Red Sox, and it wasn’t AA letting go of Farrell, Farrell basically requested to be traded to Boston, and then AA went for Gibbons. And we all know Gibby didn’t win a WS.

Browna I honestly think how you feel about AA and his trust level with Gibby is the level of trust that Atkins and Shapiro have with Montoyo.

It was AA wanting a guy who wasn't using the Blue Jays to get an MLB audition for the job he actually wanted, and has zero desire to get invested in the Jays, as Farrell did.

And I'm on record here by saying the Jays were severely screwed by the Umps game 6 of the ALCS. Both with the neckbearded rube reaching over and interfering with the HR (the difference in the score was 1 run), and the expanded strike zone the ump put in place suddenly when the Jays had the tying run on third (and go ahead run on first) with 0 out, in the 9th.

Jays should've won that game Jays would've won Game 7 and then swept the Mets like the Royals did. So Gibby wasn't that far from a WS.

And I hope they have that same faith in Montoyo, proof will be in the pudding if things go below expectations next year.

On a positive note, again, watching back some of the highlights and HRs the past week or two, Shulman and his calls have just been epic. So into them, while maintaining a level of decorum...but true.excitment without some catch phrase or act.

One could only imagine how even better would be if there was 55k in Skydome and not 30k that he was feeding off of.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by browna

It was AA wanting a guy who wasn't using the Blue Jays to get an MLB audition for the job he actually wanted, and has zero desire to get invested in the Jays, as Farrell did.

And I'm on record here by saying the Jays were severely screwed by the Umps game 6 of the ALCS. Both with the neckbearded rube reaching over and interfering with the HR (the difference in the score was 1 run), and the expanded strike zone the ump put in place suddenly when the Jays had two runners on with 0 out, starting with Revere, in the 9th.

Jays should've won that game Jays would've won Game 7 and then swept the Mets like the Royals did. So Gibby wasn't that far from a WS.

And I hope they have that same faith in Montoyo, proof will be in the pudding if things go below expectations next year.

On a positive note, again, watching back some of the highlights and HRs the past week or two, Shulman and his calls have just been epic. So into them, while maintaining a level of decorum...but true.excitment without some catch phrase or act.

One could only imagine how even better would be if there was 55k in Skydome and not 30k that he was feeding off of.

We’re on the same page here!

[flamingred89]

New day...still hurts.

[ForeverFlameFan]

It was a fun season. I honestly didn’t expect us to be this close. This is a very young team, and with the run differential and some better bullpen I expect us to get 95-100 wins next season. We just went down as a team that should’ve made the playoffs based on that god-tier run differential. We also hit the most home runs in the league. That might be due for regression.

Focus on signing Semien and Ray. Oh, and paying Vladdy/Bo.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Yeah, 4th in a division where 4 teams had 91+ wins. That's still a great year, especially when they were not seriously considered to be a playoff team due to big holes in the pitching staff and a lot of question marks around a young lineup.

Seriously, someone needs to look it up. Has there ever been a division where 4 teams had 90+ wins? That seems like a near impossibility given that the divisional teams play each other so much.

According to Mike Wilner, 1978 was the last time 4 division teams won 90 games. No team has every won 91 games and finished 4th in their division.

I too thoughts the Jays had a good year, especially considering their living arrangements. I would buy the argument that they probably win 100 games , or very, very close to it if they were at the Rodgers Centre all year long. I still think this is the 2nd best team in the division so it just really really sucks it didn't work out for them.

But future is bright. I expect they'll be back.

[Roof-Daddy]

The team was very good, they had a lot of things go right, and a few things go wrong.

Ultimately the few things that went wrong were enough to keep them out of the playoffs.

IMO the 3 key things that held them back were the bullpen, the manager and the fact that they didn't get to be at their actual real home until August.

Charlie will be back IMO, and I was hard on him. I think he got better though, and hopefully he's better next season too.

Chances are they will not be playing home games at Dunedin or Buffalo next season either.

And the bullpen? That's always a crap shoot, but I highly doubt they will be as bad next year.

So the keys to the off season for me are making sure you bring back Ray and Matz, or find suitable replacements. And the same with Semien, either bring him back or find a way to replace his WAR on offense and defense.

With a good off season, this team should be poised to win 100 games next season.

[Scornfire]

We talked about this before, but good god, what kind of league has the dodgers having to play a 1 game playoff wildcard when they had the 2nd best record of any team, 18 more wins than Atlanta who clinches a spot in an actual playoff series. Just a terrible system tbh

[bluejays]

Pitching is going to be so key next year. Losing Semien would hurt no matter who you bring in as a replacement, but they’d be able to weather through it. As it stands right now, there are a ton of question about pitching. To me Barrios and Manoah are solid #2’s already. Ryu has shifted to a #4 or 5 starter given his struggles (no idea if it’s physical or mental). So they have to bring in an ace and a top three starter to be a championship team. Then the bullpen has to have more certainty and I think that’s where Rogers will have to potentially waste money by bringing in former starters who have good stuff but don’t have the longevity to be starters anymore. So guys like Matz would be perfect. Though Matz could be in the rotation. Pearson has confidence issues so I think he’s better suited to being in the pen to start off, and moving to the rotation if he can bump a guy like Ryu at some point. Pearson has amazing pitches but lacks control at times. He he can put it together he can really be something special.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

We talked about this before, but good god, what kind of league has the dodgers having to play a 1 game playoff wildcard when they had the 2nd best record of any team, 18 more wins than Atlanta who clinches a spot in an actual playoff series. Just a terrible system tbh

No system is perfect. I’d like it opened up personally, but sometimes teams fall between the cracks. I’m hockey and basketball there are arguably too many teams at times.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by transplant99

For me, that is the issue. 22-23 in their 'home' games at the other parks.

From July 30th on, the Jays and the Yankees were tied for the 2nd best record in the AL, one game back of the Rays. No other team was close. SEA was 3 games behind the Jays. BOS was 7 1/2 back of TOR.