2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Nobody who watches hockey in any capacity thought MacKinnon was a 50 point player, at any point.

No, but I bet that point total in a contract year didn't help his cause.

[DeluxeMoustache]

People here have successfully argued, arriving at the point where they think Calgary has done well given the circumstances?

Anybody need a do over?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No, but I bet that point total in a contract year didn't help his cause.

Hm. Two big contracts to deal with next year. See the Flames’ off season signings this year?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Just because you can't see the plan doesn't mean there isn't one. It is as though people like to think this organization is run by seventh graders.

Seventh graders might actually do a better job.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Regarding Colombus, I'm a big fan of Jarmo. If you guys remember what that organization was before he got there, they never made the playoffs and were maybe the worst franchice in the league the first 15 years of their existance. Now they're at least respectable and have built an identity of being a blue collar type of team. It's not his fault that guys don't want to play there. Yeah the call to not sell Panarin at the deadline was gutsy and had a small chance to pay off but at least you gave the fans something to cheer for and rewarded the team for making the playoffs. He since has recouped the picks by trading guys like Foligno and Savard.

So if under Sutter have a blue collar team, and if Treliving makes the gutsy call to let Gaudreau go, and if he recoups some picks by trading guys like Bennett and Rittich, and maybe other guys, you will become a big fan? I mean, if players don't want to play here it's not his fault.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Hm. Two big contracts to deal with next year. See the Flames’ off season signings this year?

I think Gaudreau and Tkachuk absolutely should have their recent seasons taken into account. Of course, Mackinnon was coming off an ELC into his first RFA contract, back when that was a difference maker.

I'm not sure what the offseason signings have to do with it.

[Monahammer]

Forget the cup, I think there is a very real chance that Columbus is better than the Flames this year. No question they have more talent in the pipeline for future years as well.

If people think that's an underperforming franchise, how can they even watch ours?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Is this the case though or is it just there is a commitment to a direction that fans don't agree with?
I would argue the problem is the organization is committed to the wrong goal: to get in the playoffs rather than build a club that can compete for a long period of time in a sustainable fashion.

I don't know if they aren't committed to a clear direction. Seems like they are. A lot of us just don't like that direction

Do you really believe that the organizational directive is just be good enough to make the playoffs? We say that a lot around here, and while it looks that way, I imagine there's more to it.

I am sure they want to actually build a long term contender which maybe is somewhat similar to building a team that is in the playoffs every year.

So then a plan would be something that allows you to achieve that objective. And IMO it is hard to figure out how they believe that should be accomplished.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think Gaudreau and Tkachuk absolutely should have their recent seasons taken into account. Of course, Mackinnon was coming off an ELC into his first RFA contract, back when that was a difference maker.

I'm not sure what the offseason signings have to do with it.

I was kind of kidding, but basically
- lower points resulted in a team friendly / lower dollar contract for Mackinnon
- Tre has given away top tier puck moving D and replaced them with comparatively immobile D
- besides Coleman, the highlight of the off-season was constructing a fourth line with combined age over 100

I’ll say again that when Ritchie played with Gaudreau and Monahan, in 135 minutes even strength, the team got zero (0) goals

So basically what I was saying is that Treliving is a genius. By surrounding Johnny with a team full of low skill players, he can keep his numbers low and negotiate a great contract

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Couldn't you say the same sort of things about Calgary?

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

So the same as Calgary.

Regarding UFAs sure, it's a fair point. But considering the starting point I don't think Treliving has come even close to accomplishing what Jarmo has. Kekalainen has consistently improved the stature and results of CBJ whereas the Flames have been spinning their wheels for seven years under Treliving. Calgary also hasn't been bleeding top end talent like Columbus, which has been a major issue for them to overcome.

[Roof-Daddy]

I was thinking, maybe this is the last crack at it for this "core"?

Sutter doesn't have to stick around for his last year if they decide to retool/rebuild.

The team is poised for a pretty sizeable tear down the way the contracts are structured. If they fail under Sutter this season maybe the plan is to sell everything that isn't nailed down?

Pending UFA's

Gaudreau
Zadarov
Gudbranson (I know lol)
Pitlick
Lewis
Richardson

Other than Gaudreau it obviously isn't high end, but playoff teams are always looking for veteran depth especially when it comes with experience winning cups.

Guys like Monahan and Lucic would only have one season left, and their value could be increased by retaining on them. And then you have pending RFA Tkachuk who could be retained on and moved in a blockbuster potentially.

Could go into the 2022 draft with 5+ picks in the first two rounds and 10+ picks throughout the entire draft.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Seventh graders might actually do a better job.

Good one!

Way to add to the conversation!

Hope you weren't alone so you could hammer out a high five or two after hitting submit!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Do you really believe that the organizational directive is just be good enough to make the playoffs? We say that a lot around here, and while it looks that way, I imagine there's more to it.

I am sure they want to actually build a long term contender which maybe is somewhat similar to building a team that is in the playoffs every year.

So then a plan would be something that allows you to achieve that objective. And IMO it is hard to figure out how they believe that should be accomplished.

It doesn't have to be a light switch though ... often it's a dimmer.

So "build a long term contender" but "don't blow it up" and continue to "make the playoffs every year".

They limit each other's effectiveness but it appears to be the directive.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I was thinking, maybe this is the last crack at it for this "core"?

Sutter doesn't have to stick around for his last year if they decide to retool/rebuild.

The team is poised for a pretty sizeable tear down the way the contracts are structured. If they fail under Sutter this season maybe the plan is to sell everything that isn't nailed down?

Pending UFA's

Gaudreau
Zadarov
Gudbranson (I know lol)
Pitlick
Lewis
Richardson

Other than Gaudreau it obviously isn't high end, but playoff teams are always looking for veteran depth especially when it comes with experience winning cups.

Guys like Monahan and Lucic would only have one season left, and their value could be increased by retaining on them. And then you have pending RFA Tkachuk who could be retained on and moved in a blockbuster potentially.

Could go into the 2022 draft with 5+ picks in the first two rounds and 10+ picks throughout the entire draft.

I have heard this same #### every off season for the last 3 years. I am almost positive you made nearly the exact same post last year.

I agree with Shazam; a grade schooler (or random choice generator) probably would have consistently made better choices than Brad Treliving has over the last 7 years as GM. Low grade insult but the point remains. Abysmal performance over his tenure.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

By we you mean me I'd assume.

I personally see a big difference in someone criticizing the plan as they know it, or as they think it is currently, than the guy that beats his chest and says they don't have a plan, blah blah smartest guy in the room.

I think the team had a plan. It was built around a deep defense core and Monahan and Gaudreau up front. Drafting and moves added Tkachuk and Lindholm to the mix making them deeper at forward but then the duo hit the wall and they've been reeling since.

To me the issue is what's up now.

Do they see it differently than the average fan? Does Treliving believe this is the core and he's keeping with it come hell or high water? His comments at the end of last season tells me no ... he wanted change. He didn't get it.

So why? My money is on offers being so weak that either he, or ownership ... or all of them just didn't feel it was the way to go.

But all of that is hugely different than saying there is no plan at all.

I don't see bad or incomplete planning as "hugely different" than no planning. Both result in failure.

I see scant evidence of a plan since the end of the Avs series which was about 900 days ago. Or maybe the plan is far too reliant on the actions of others and that's why nothing has happened.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It doesn't have to be a light switch though ... often it's a dimmer.

So "build a long term contender" but "don't blow it up" and continue to "make the playoffs every year".

They limit each other's effectiveness but it appears to be the directive.

If the directive is to make the playoffs every year, then a plan would be how you go about accomplishing that directive.

I'm not critical of Treliving for not blowing it up. Let's evaluate him on his effectiveness in building a consistent playoff team from where he started eight seasons ago.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I was thinking, maybe this is the last crack at it for this "core"?

Sutter doesn't have to stick around for his last year if they decide to retool/rebuild.

The team is poised for a pretty sizeable tear down the way the contracts are structured. If they fail under Sutter this season maybe the plan is to sell everything that isn't nailed down?

Pending UFA's

Gaudreau
Zadarov
Gudbranson (I know lol)
Pitlick
Lewis
Richardson

Other than Gaudreau it obviously isn't high end, but playoff teams are always looking for veteran depth especially when it comes with experience winning cups.

Guys like Monahan and Lucic would only have one season left, and their value could be increased by retaining on them. And then you have pending RFA Tkachuk who could be retained on and moved in a blockbuster potentially.

Could go into the 2022 draft with 5+ picks in the first two rounds and 10+ picks throughout the entire draft.

Lucic with another year left on his contract still couldn't be moved at the deadline. Until he's an expiring contract, good luck moving him.

Monahan will depend entirely on his health and production.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Do you really believe that the organizational directive is just be good enough to make the playoffs? We say that a lot around here, and while it looks that way, I imagine there's more to it.

I am sure they want to actually build a long term contender which maybe is somewhat similar to building a team that is in the playoffs every year.

So then a plan would be something that allows you to achieve that objective. And IMO it is hard to figure out how they believe that should be accomplished.

I think the organizational goal is to compete. And right now that means basically get to the playoffs and try to pull off what the Habs did.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Good one!

Way to add to the conversation!

Hope you weren't alone so you could hammer out a high five or two after hitting submit!

There's a thing about being that age.

A 12 year old might not actually spend to the cap just for the sake of spending.

I do remember at that age watching games, clearly understanding which players were awful.

Depends on their maturity level.

Tre does a very good job of rationalizing his decisions. You (yes, you, Bingo) think rationalizations justify decisions. A bad decision is still a bad decision regardless.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't see bad or incomplete planning as "hugely different" than no planning. Both result in failure.

I see scant evidence of a plan since the end of the Avs series which was about 900 days ago. Or maybe the plan is far too reliant on the actions of others and that's why nothing has happened.

Right but since that Avs series ended you've had

- one year suspended and a bubble series
- the next year played with no fans
- Caps frozen going forward
- two Monahan surgeries
- Gaudreau and Tkachuk having declining numbers

You haven't seen results for sure, can't argue that. But none of us has any idea what the plan has been or hasn't been in that time frame.

Not a huge leap to suggest moving big pieces in a cap environment with injury issues and sliding perforrmance might be challenging, and keeping the plan (whatever it is) from seeing day light.