Training Camp - Sept 23

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by neo45

So you think Monahan is good at defense and Mangiapane isn’t?

I don't see how you get that from my post. I'm saying I think Coleman is better at defence than Mangiapane, and if they stick Gaudreau and Monahan together, they need a really good defensive presence on the line (like they had with Lindholm).

As for Monahan, I think he has decent positioning and a good stick in his own zone. I think he has more trouble in the neutral zone, or in defending a rush if he's covering for a pinching D, as he often does.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I just don't see it. His positioning in his own zone isn't great and neither is his stick, and he flies the zone a bit. He's good at forechecking and dogged on puck control though, which are defence in a way.

Dube-Backlund-Pitlick is a line that could be very effective IMO.

I agree. Mangiapane has bad defensive awareness. He has a motor and doesn't quit but he loses his man constantly in the defensive zone.

[TheIronMaiden]

I love that the second group is firmly in the you have to earn it zone. Direct competition for a sniff at a roster spot is a healthy way to start a season.

[mile]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

I'm guilty of always having day 1 optimism, but the forward lines look balanced and more defined. Clear top two lines. A shut down 3rd with the ability to chip in. And a 4th line designed to wear down the opposition and not give up too much. Traditional definitions, so maybe boring, but that's what I see.

Probably just me but I looked at the 2012 Kings lines and thought the template looked a little similar:

Brown - Kopitar - Williams
Penner - Richards - Carter
King - Stoll - Lewis
Richardson - Fraser - Nolan

Scuderi - Doughty
Mitchell - Voynov
Martinez - Greene

2 scoring lines, a shutdown line, and an energy line. D is a mix of youth and vets with a stay-at-home D w/size on each pairing.

Obviously we don’t have a Kopitar or Doughty but I like our talent on the wings. Monahan and the D are going to be the big question marks. I have high hopes for Hanifin after he put up 0.5 PPG after Sutter took over but more than likely the D will have to do it by committee and be greater than the sum of their parts.

[Savvy27]

Those lines are interesting. I, too, would have thought that Coleman would be put with Gaudreau and Monahan if they were together as a defensive conscience and also would have thought the established chemistry of Mang with Tkachuk would have been where they started.

I'm relieved to see Lucic with Lewis and Richardson. It makes sense to me to put him on that line and see if Pitlick can mesh with Dube and Backlund as a very fast, hard forechecking line.

As much as people seem unhappy with the top 6, assuming Monahan's health, I am glad there are 6 top six players that can be shuffled around.

[Harry Lime]

Only hiccup for me is Zadorov-Tanev. I'd rather pair offensive-defensive up and down.

[mile]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1441094530871091203

[SuperMatt18]

Here's the thing...I think we go back to seeing Gaudreau-Monahan get more sheltered offensive minutes.

Under Gulutzan, and in the first year under Peters those guys had the cushy minutes. Then after the playoff failure there was the idea to get them to try to become better 200ft players and they saw some tougher head to head match ups, I think that experiment is over.

What we hear from Sutter is that Sutter is all about roles and match ups.

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Coleman: They get other teams top lines and are expected to still produce.
Dube-Backlund-Pitlick: They get other teams second lines and are expected to not get scored on.
Gaudreau-Monahan-Mangiapane: They are going to get other teams third lines and they will be expected to score and win that match up.
Lucic-Richardson-Ritchie/Lewis: Hit people and don't get scored on.

Somebody posted the 2012 Kings lines...but this roster to me sets up a lot more like the 2014 Kings.

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Coleman = Gaborik-Kopitar-Brown
Gaudreau-Monahan-Mangapane = Pearson - Carter - Toffoli
King-Stoll-Williams = Pitlick-Backlund-Dube
Clifford-Richards-Lewis = Lucic-Richardson-Lewis

And funny enough that Kings team's defense was a bit of a mish mash at times too, with a lot of young pieces. Their top 6 in the playoffs that year was:

Doughty: 23
Voynov: 23
Muzzin: 24
Martinez: 26
Greene: 30
Regehr: 33
Mitchell: 36

Voynov, Muzzin, and Martinez really broke out that season.

Flames Defense this year:

Valimaki: 22
Andersson: 24
Hanifin: 24
Zadorov: 26
Gudbranson: 29
Tanev: 31
Stone: 31

Interesting is that the core of that Kings defense in 2014 was very very young, just like this Flames defense. Sutter and young d-men tend to be a good pairing.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Ritchie is the 7th forward. I think they slot him in for practice reps with guys he's skated with before. Don't panic (yet).

13th forward?

[mile]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1441103422086782980

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

13th forward?

Yes, had a brain cramp.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yes, had a brain cramp.

I was like "Damn! That's just mean to Backs and Dube!"

[Mitch]

I think a lot of people will be eating crow re their comments on players with down years last year (Monahan especially). And while Gudbrandon is… not so good, he is still an upgrade over Nesterov.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I just don't see it. His positioning in his own zone isn't great and neither is his stick, and he flies the zone a bit. He's good at forechecking and dogged on puck control though, which are defence in a way.

Dube-Backlund-Pitlick is a line that could be very effective IMO.

On top of having by far the best defensive impacts on the Flames, he's also projected to win the Selke (obviously won't because of name recognition and position) by one of the most respected names in analytics.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1438984912674099208

The day Mangiapane gets the recognition he deserves for his incredible impact will be a great day.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

On top of having by far the best defensive impacts on the Flames, he's also projected to win the Selke (obviously won't because of name recognition and position) by one of the most respected names in analytics.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1438984912674099208

The day Mangiapane gets the recognition he deserves for his incredible impact will be a great day.

I'm happy to be proven wrong. I like Mangiapane a lot - I just have never thought of defence as a strength area.

That said, analytically - why is he ranked like that? If it's overall shot suppression, maybe that has something to do with offensive play/forechecking?

[TheIronMaiden]

Monahan is one tough SoB.

[Canada 02]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1401629004260646915

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'm happy to be proven wrong. I like Mangiapane a lot - I just have never thought of defence as a strength area.

That said, analytically - why is he ranked like that? If it's overall shot suppression, maybe that has something to do with offensive play/forechecking?

I think it's tenacity. He may fall down in the corner or be on the losing end of a puck battle, but he'll get right back in the play and right back on the puck faster than most other players. He doesn't give up and doesn't fly by his assignment, so whoever he is covering is rarely able to operate unhindered.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by mile

https://twitter.com/user/status/1441103422086782980

So do we still want to trade Monahan for a 3rd line winger?

[Goriders]

Was hoping monahan and gaudreau would stay apart

Not the D pairing I figured would happen.

It is the first day thiugh. Guessing it’ll change a number of times before the season starts.

No prospects.