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Old 09-17-2021, 06:25 PM   #9861
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Fair point. And now that I think about it, I seem to remember Hugo Chavez endorsing Obama. But I do know that if you're not an American you're not supposed to work for, or donate to, any US candidate. I'm not sure what the distinction is between calling people and telling them to vote for Bernie and being the President of Mexico and telling people to vote for him.
Yeah, I don't understand the distinction either. Seems like a silly prohibition (if it is in fact in force), especially in the Internet Age.
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:25 PM   #9862
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How about trees per Capita

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/trees-per-capita

Canada contributes less then 2% of global emissions. Any real climate plan needs to target the big emitters or it isn't a plan. Saying you're voting for Trudeau because of his climate record just doesn't make any sense.
How about not trees per capita?
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:30 PM   #9863
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It's not really a surprise that you can't read graphs, but I'm betting you haven't seen one that is per capita and based on GDP.
Doesn't a graph like that need to be adjusted for inflation? I'm sure it would still go down though.
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:30 PM   #9864
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What if... All this is a Stickman humblebrag of how rich he is?
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:33 PM   #9865
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What if... All this is a Stickman humblebrag of how rich he is?
You people really like taxes. I think you must be rich.
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:39 PM   #9866
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You people really like taxes. I think you must be rich.
You're adorable.
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:44 PM   #9867
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It's crazy how much love there is for Trudeau's completely useless carbon tax. Zero good arguments, "climate will fix itself if we tax everyone to heat their homes and drive to work". This country is really messed up.
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:46 PM   #9868
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It's crazy how much love there is for Trudeau's completely useless carbon tax. Zero good arguments, "climate will fix itself if we tax everyone to heat their homes and drive to work".
Zero good arguments:

https://clcouncil.org/economists-statement/

Once again, for the benefit of anyone with actual good faith interest in this discussion, this is not "Trudeau's carbon tax". This is "every-federal-party-except-the-PPC's carbon tax."
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:50 PM   #9869
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We can't directly dictate to other countries what they must do, so we have to set the example and urge countries to follow our lead. As a bare minimum, we ought to meet our Paris targets.
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:57 PM   #9870
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Zero good arguments:

https://clcouncil.org/economists-statement/

Once again, for the benefit of anyone with actual good faith interest in this discussion, this is not "Trudeau's carbon tax". This is "every-federal-party-except-the-PPC's carbon tax."
Just for fun, let's say we tax carbon so high that Canadians can't afford it. Let's say we figure out a way to power the entire country from hydro from Quebec so we convert everything to clean electric. Now how much have we lowered global emissions? 50%? 40%? How about 10% maybe? Hopefully 2% at least? Nope, less than 2% is the correct answer. Great plan, local taxation on a tiny carbon emitting country to fix a global problem. That is not a climate plan.
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:00 PM   #9871
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Stickman has convinced me. I will not vote for the liberals. Thank you stick man.
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:04 PM   #9872
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We can't directly dictate to other countries what they must do, so we have to set the example and urge countries to follow our lead. As a bare minimum, we ought to meet our Paris targets.
We can put tarrifs on goods from polluting countries. We can stop buying things made in China. We can stop sending coal to China. We can sell natural gas to China. We can carbon tax foreign oil going to eastern Canada. We can plant even more trees, maybe in other countries. We can share technologies with other countries to help them reduce their emissions. We can do a lot without "dictating" anything. That alone would probably reduce GLOBAL emissions more then what Canada produces. If other G7 countries did the same it would be huge. Trudeau paid someone to come up with "carbon tax Canadians home heating and gasoline, and charge GST on top of it". I would fire that person for complete lack of creativity.

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Old 09-17-2021, 07:07 PM   #9873
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We can put tarrifs on goods from polluting countries. We can stop buying things made in China. We can stop sending coal to China. We can sell natural gas to China. We can carbon tax foreign oil going to eastern Canada. We can plant even more trees, maybe in other countries. We can share technologies with other countries to help them reduce their emissions. We can do a lot without "dictating" anything. That alone would probably reduce GLOBAL emissions more then what Canada produces. If other G7 countries did the same it would be huge.
Yes. All of this. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't also put a price on carbon. If the goal is to get most of the world to price carbon, we have to be setting a positive example.
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:09 PM   #9874
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Stickman has convinced me. I will not vote for the liberals. Thank you stick man.
You can vote for liberals, just not because they have any kind of climate "plan". Liberals under Trudeau are the "do nothing, get nothing done, make everything more expensive" party, so I guess some people like that sort of thing.
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:10 PM   #9875
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Just for fun, let's say we tax carbon so high that Canadians can't afford it. Let's say we figure out a way to power the entire country from hydro from Quebec so we convert everything to clean electric. Now how much have we lowered global emissions? 50%? 40%? How about 10% maybe? Hopefully 2% at least? Nope, less than 2% is the correct answer. Great plan, local taxation on a tiny carbon emitting country to fix a global problem. That is not a climate plan.
Just for fun, let's say Beijing magically reduced its greenhouse gas emissions to zero. That would reduce global emissions by less than 1%! What's the point? So good news, Beijing! Your residents no longer have any ethical or moral duty to reduce greenhouse gas emissions!

Rinse and repeat as may be convenient for whichever political unit you live in!
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:12 PM   #9876
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Yes. All of this. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't also put a price on carbon. If the goal is to get most of the world to price carbon, we have to be setting a positive example.
For me to be okay with a carbon tax, it would have to exclude home heating. And the government would have to provide an affordable alternative to gasoline powered vehicles. And they wouldn't be able to charge GST on top of the carbon tax.
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:15 PM   #9877
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Sure the heck is, a bunch of buzz words and phrases.

discourages consumption
choices that are more mindful of the environment
green energy more attractive
good step toward reducing emissions

Bull#### political speak. Zero actual solutions which is proven since our carbon footprint has gone up under Trudeau, or at best stayed the same.
All of those basic English words mean something when said in sequence and that is backed up by the fact that you're stating that the results of a carbon tax have failed to serve said statements. Maybe argue that instead.
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:16 PM   #9878
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Just for fun, let's say Beijing magically reduced its greenhouse gas emissions to zero. That would reduce global emissions by less than 1%! What's the point? So good news, Beijing! Your residents no longer have any ethical or moral duty to reduce greenhouse gas emissions!

Rinse and repeat as may be convenient for whichever political unit you live in!
The goal is to reduce GLOBAL emissions. Local taxation only works if the entire world does it. Otherwise it just puts Canada at a disadvantage financially. Is there even any proof that carbon tax works? Or just theories? I thought everywhere it has been tried the emissions keep increasing. Is there a success story?
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:18 PM   #9879
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We can put tarrifs on goods from polluting countries. We can stop buying things made in China. We can stop sending coal to China. We can sell natural gas to China. We can carbon tax foreign oil going to eastern Canada. We can plant even more trees, maybe in other countries. We can share technologies with other countries to help them reduce their emissions. We can do a lot without "dictating" anything. That alone would probably reduce GLOBAL emissions more then what Canada produces. If other G7 countries did the same it would be huge. Trudeau paid someone to come up with "carbon tax Canadians home heating and gasoline, and charge GST on top of it". I would fire that person for complete lack of creativity.
Wait, you're proposing that Canada, whose global market shate is even smaller than its greenhouse gas emissions, try to exert pressure on export giants like the US and China by refusing to trade with them? And you're prepared to suffer the absolutely catastrophic effects this plan would have on the Canadian economy and all Canadians?
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:32 PM   #9880
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Wait, you're proposing that Canada, whose global market shate is even smaller than its greenhouse gas emissions, try to exert pressure on export giants like the US and China by refusing to trade with them? And you're prepared to suffer the absolutely catastrophic effects this plan would have on the Canadian economy and all Canadians?
Wait, you're suggesting that we keep buying everything from China and forcing them to have a giant carbon footprint and destroy the planet just so China and the USA can remain export Giants? You're prepared to suffer the absolutely catastrophic climate effects this plan would have on all Canadians and everyone else on the planet?
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