Francis: Flames not making excuses for challenges luring top players to Calgary

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Poe969

If every team in the league thinks Treliving is asking too much, maybe he's overvalued his players and needs to reassess the team.

I am excited for this year because the team looks tougher, I just don't think they're better. I really hope they are but years of the same core disappointing, I'd rather they just make trades for whatever. I'd have more fun cheering for a new bad team instead of the old bad team.

Not sure I agree.

Monahan is the most likely target to move.

You canvas the market to see if someone will move beyond the "guy is hurt and has had two tough seasons" discount bin. If that guy doesn't exist then you have to evaluate whether it's better to cut your losses and move on or bank on a bounce back that will return more value.

That doesn't require a mistake in evaluating your players, but a line that you won't cross believing it's a better asset value move to keep the player and let him rebound.

[bax]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Gio being taken in expansion doesn't bug me as much as Brodie walking, especially when he had the value to potentially land Kadri.

Should've been dealt. Guess there was no plan B after the Toronto deal that fell through.

That can't happen again any time soon.

Plan B was play the season out with Brodie and then try to re-sign him.

If they couldn’t re-sign him then replace him with a comparable UFA which they did in Tanev. Think of it as swapping Brodie for Tanev, two relatively equal in value defenseman. If the Kadri deal went through then we likely don’t have Tanev.

The Flames made the playoffs that season. Brodie was never going to be traded at the deadline. I don’t think any GM would have handled that situation differently. No GM ships out their second or third best defenseman as they head into the playoffs. Can’t send that message to your players.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Weitz

For an average person? Or for millionaires?

For everyone. Poor practices by healthcare providers extend beyond socioeconomic gaps. Doctors spend more time treating the symptom than the disease. Doesn't change if you're rich or poor. The system is built to focus on the symptom and not the underlying cause.

[GioforPM]

Health care probably is not a factor, given they are covered by and treated by the team. I don't know if their families get benefits but I bet there's something. Or else they cab afford their care. I also don't think cost of living is a factor. Buying a house in a market, and selling later on when moving to another team or retiring are a wash.

I suspect, depending on age and family, the factors are: take home pay, chances for success, lifestyle (and depending on the player this means different things). I also don;t think most players get into fancy tax planning. Have a look at the Zadorov interview where he talks about money.

[neo45]

Once you’ve been calling the shots for 7 years essentially everything actually is your fault and the buck stops with you when there aren’t results

Teams aren’t valuing your pieces up to your standards? Probably because you constructed a poor roster without an identity so the individual pieces aren’t thriving

Players don’t want to sign here? Probably due to the lack of vision, results, and your own poor track record of finding the right fit through free agency


I fully believe him that he was in a tough spot to make moves this summer. What I don’t think he is wrapping his head around is the concept that he put himself in that tough spot

[TheIronMaiden]

So long as the Flames don't trade picks heavily I am not concerned about the timing of a rebuild. The trade deadline this season is the actual deadline.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It's complicated as hell. You are 100% right, the US is a center for innovation and premium health care. Look at where the best Covid vaccines came from.

And of course costs and accessibility are the big issues in the US. But there are statistics that show outcomes in the US for certain types of health care aren't as good as in other highly developed countries. The answer can't be boiled down to a sound byte and I imagine a lot relates back to the accessibility issue.

Here's a pretty good study.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...es/#item-start

Well ya, Texas has infant mortality rates of a developing nation. Being poor isn't recommended there.

But that's meaningless when discussing where millionaires want to live.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by DJones

Well ya, Texas has infant mortality rates of a developing nation.

I checked, no they don't. Slighter higher than the average Canadian province.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by zamler

I checked, no they don't. Slighter higher than the average Canadian province.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ld-why-n791671

Guess I was thinking about this

[DeluxeMoustache]

Brad Treliving could talk to Eichel and sell him on Calgary by pointing at that old chunk of coal Sean Monahan. One thing, he can point out, is that the Flames let their players get surgery in the off season

But then it’s all about having a trading partner. I suspect that Kevyn Adams has likely had it with Treliving. He will never do a deal with Treliving because of how Treliving keeps showing him up.

You know, by letting his players have surgery in the off season

[activeStick]

I'm not convinced that the city of a team matters that much to players. During the actual season, the players are busy with the game and most don't have the time to enjoy what their city has to offer to the extent they'd like, so I think that as long as the city itself provides the in-season needs that they want (e.g. good schools for kids if they have any, a community that their partner enjoys, etc.) - which all cities in the league provide - they'll be fine.

Once the season is done, players with their support system (their family or partner's family) elsewhere seem to go back to their offseason homes to be closer to them, which makes sense given their financial freedom. The young guys who don't have kids is where the city might matter as a city like NYC has a ton more to offer to a single, 23-year old than Calgary does, so I can see why they'd choose the Rangers over the Flames.

Tons of players also go back to their home country in the offseason as well and don't stay in the city they play in even if it is New York.

I think the biggest factor for players are reputation of the management, the players on that team, opportunity they'll get on that roster and the team's outlook.

[MolsonInBothHands]

If this is becoming a growing obstacle for Canadian teams, perhaps it should be addressed in the next CBA? Short of banning NMC, and NTC, could they assign a monetary value to be added to AAV for different kinds of clauses? If a player waives the clause, then bump the salary by this amount as well.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by DJones

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ld-why-n791671

Guess I was thinking about this

Well it's pretty obvious, they're shooting their babies.

[Northendzone]

i am now confused as to what this thread is all about

[Shazam]

"Come to Calgary or else we shoot your babies."

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

So long as the Flames don't trade picks heavily I am not concerned about the timing of a rebuild. The trade deadline this season is the actual deadline.

Too late.

They've already traded a 3rd and a 4th this summer for a bottom-six grinder and a bottom-pair defenceman.

[Enoch Root]

and acquired a 2nd

or does that not fit the narrative?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am not sure if Treliving really believes that or not, but this is something that shouldn't even really be discussed as an excuse IMO.


Florida, Tampa, NYR, Vegas and the California teams. That's where players want to live. I expect that Seattle will be a destination at some point (if they don't end up mismanaged).


However, a lot of FAs just want a chance to win, period.



Remember 2014-15 when the Flames looked like a really exciting young team that was poised to take the next step? Panarin had Calgary in his final 4. I bet Calgary is no longer in his top 20, and it isn't because somehow Calgary's taxes were increased, Calgary's climate got colder, and the Saddledome has become condemned and is about to collapse.



Build a young and exciting team that is looking poised to become a contender, and more players will want to be part of it. Look and perform like a mediocre team, and less players will find that attractive. Does the location hurt? Of course it does - when you are mediocre. There is no 'upside' to signing in Calgary other than money now.



It is feast or famine in Calgary - win, and lots of good players will be happy to play here. Becoming mediocre (or middle of the pack) and Calgary instantly drops to bottom 5 in the league, and then they have to open their wallets to longer term bigger dollar deals to make up the difference - and even then you aren't going to get the top FAs.


Brad Richards turned down Calgary when Calgary was looking like a mediocre squad, even though it offered the most. Did Calgary even bother bidding on Tavares?



Building a team through FAs is basically pointless anyway as you usually overpay regardless of where you are located (hello NYR pre-cap era). I think it will become a bigger issue as more and more players have NTCs/NMCs in their contracts, for as long as Calgary is somewhere between mediocre and poor.



Build a young and exciting team, and you rarely have to worry about FAs that won't sign here, or trades that get nixed because the player didn't waive, even in Calgary. Edmonton and Winnipeg, on the other hand.. yikes.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

and acquired a 2nd

or does that not fit the narrative?

Acquired a 2nd? That was last season when he traded away a 24 year old #2 centre to one of the top teams in the league. He certainly didn't acquire a 2nd round pick this off-season.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Acquired a 2nd? That was last season when he traded away a 24 year old #2 centre to one of the top teams in the league. He certainly didn't acquire a 2nd round pick this off-season.

So we're only counting what happened during the window you are referring to - got it.