Francis: Flames not making excuses for challenges luring top players to Calgary

[Freeway]

Choice was likely between signing Coleman or signing Hyman this off-season. But with new digs not opening for three more seasons and the team having missed the playoffs, what's the sales pitch to come to Calgary like right now?

[TheRealPepman]

If there was a time to write a long post as a first post, it was this time.

That said, from here on, if we post stuff by Eric Francis, we better post the entire article as a post and not put the link at all.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

A single playoff series win in 7 years. At the end of the day the results are all that matters. Plenty of other GM's are in difficult situations and not all have been afforded the ability to spend to the cap ceiling annually yet the Flames are at the top of the list when it comes to playoff futility. I'm just not buying the excuses at all. Make the playoffs and win some rounds and then maybe fans won't be calling for your head.

Totally fair points. I agree that it is about results, and the last 7 years haven't measured up.
That said, it seems obvious that barring an epic collapse, he won't be fired until after this season at the soonest.
Talking about it right now like it should or will happen is moot.

Now, for arguments sake, (and this isn't specifically for you, EE) what if the Flames play to their potential for a change, finish, say 2nd in the Pacific, knock out the Oilers in the first round, and lose a close series to Vegas; does Treliving stay on?

What if he gets Gaudreau signed to a fair deal prior to the season, too?

What if Tkachuk agrees to a deal as well?

Is that enough to keep his job?

I am curious what the threshold is at this point in Treliving’s tenure.

[flames_fan_down_under]

If the organizational mandate is to not rebuild but make the playoffs, even in that respect, BT is failing.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Yobbo

Pretty sure I remember an article where Iggy was quoted saying that the facilities in Pittsburgh were much better than in Calgary. Maybe it does matter more than we think to some players.

Yeah I recall that as well. He was pretty smitten about the newer top notch facilities for working out, training, and cooling down after games. These things matter to professionals. It helps when the facilities are actually places the players want to hang out. I recall another player raving about their in-house aquatic therapy and medical rooms.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by chedder

He's just setting the fans up for why Johnny and Chucky are going to walk for almost nothing in return. (Only half joking)

I'll take 50 cents on the dollar over zero.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Coleman is a better player than Hyman anyway IMO

Hyman played on the first line with two superstars and choked in the qualifying round/playoffs, hopefully that trend continues...if they make it

Coleman had 24 points in the playoffs and 2 straight cups

Yeah. I don't even feel like we missed out or got a consolation prize.

Coleman is solid, probably more reliable, produces when it matters and cost us less.

Thats the least of my issues with Treliving this offseason.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

It's weird to argue that tax differences are a substantial issue while arguing that another bottom-line factor is trivial.

It's trivial compared to the amount of money they're making. Unless you are Evander Kane, blowing all your money on a gambling addiction (which will ruin you no matter what the cost of living is in your town), you don't spend several million dollars a year on living expenses.

look closer before you spout off, but why would you change. Calgary/Edmonton are lower than all NY teams, all Cali teams, Mont/Tor/Winn/Vancouver/Ott. They are middle of the pack. Calgary/Edm on Eichels salary are $150.000 cheaper than NY and over $500,000 cheaper than Ontario.

Insult noted, and filed as proof that you haven't got a real argument.

Calgary/Edmonton, as I pointed out, are NOT lower than Buffalo for players earning $3 million and up, and they are higher than every other U.S. team outside of California and New York. Which is exactly what I said, and your attempt to call me out on factual grounds is pure bull.

There are several reasons why many players reportedly have all seven Canadian teams on their no-trade lists. One of the most important is a five-letter word with the letter X in the middle. Being the least undesirable Canadian market from a financial standpoint is rather like being the leper with the most fingers.

Depending on lifestyle choices, COL differences aren't necessarily trivial (ie. we might be talking about a 1% lower COL vs. a 3% higher net tax burden, for a total differential of 2%).

We would then (taking your figures, which I wouldn't) be talking about 1% less of the 10 or 20 percent of your salary that you actually spend on living expenses, versus the 3% higher net tax burden. So the net differential is so close to the gross 3% that it amounts to a rounding error.

[bubbsy]

Reading those quotes, how long till they realize that they can only really upgrade the core of the rosteR, the impact skill level, thru the draft???

If they truly realize this, they would be forced to adapt and become far more shrewd in the player asset management year in and year out. Be willing to ship good players out EARLY. Which is something that the franchise has struggled with for some time.

I take the interview statement as 'we are staying pat, as we didn't have opportunities to improve that made sense '. Which is fine, but it also leads to the next question, at which point in time now is it better to just stand pat vs go full on rebuild? If the flames aren't in a playoff spot by this deadline, could it be by then??

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by blender

Totally fair points. I agree that it is about results, and the last 7 years haven't measured up.
That said, it seems obvious that barring an epic collapse, he won't be fired until after this season at the soonest.
Talking about it right now like it should or will happen is moot.

Now, for arguments sake, (and this isn't specifically for you, EE) what if the Flames play to their potential for a change, finish, say 2nd in the Pacific, knock out the Oilers in the first round, and lose a close series to Vegas; does Treliving stay on?

What if he gets Gaudreau signed to a fair deal prior to the season, too?

What if Tkachuk agrees to a deal as well?

Is that enough to keep his job?

I am curious what the threshold is at this point in Treliving’s tenure.

If the Flames make the playoffs Treliving probably stays period as ownership has always set the bar low for their GM's.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by TheChief

I dont think there is any question, even with the new rink and the two greatest forwards currently in the game. Edmonton is a garbage organization, one of which the NHL has never seen before. A UFA would choose Calgary over Edmonton 10/10. Brad didn't want him as bad as Ken did. Take it as a blessing.

i did not want to compare the merits of coleman v hyman.

the flames offered a contract to coleman of ~$30m/6 yrs - it would be real interesting to know what other offers coleman had. was it less term? same term but less value? less cash and term? what if his next best offer was say ~18m/4yrs?

i am sure the flames had to cough up more term and cash to get him here.

i have always wondered how secondary factors (arena, tax situation, potential linemates, weather, organizational reputation etc) play into a FA making a decision to sign somewhere

[blender]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If the Flames make the playoffs Treliving probably stays period as ownership has always set the bar low for their GM's.

Sure, but what about the fan base that is "calling for his head"?

Is winning another round, and locking up two of their best players enough to ameliorate the 7 years previous in our minds?

Again, not singling you out at all just curious about people's thoughts on this. Sports is such a "what have you done for me lately" business.I

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Yeah. I don't even feel like we missed out or got a consolation prize.

Coleman is solid, probably more reliable, produces when it matters and cost us less.

Thats the least of my issues with Treliving this offseason.

Coleman is much better defensively.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

So BT stays for another 5 years while we see how those picks pan out?

You said they didn't draft well.

I disagreed.

Treliving has had a lot of missteps (most GMs do) so if you want the guy gone there's plenty of ammunition and content to focus on. I don't think the team's draft record under him is one of them.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by blender

Sure, but what about the fan base that is "calling for his head"?

Is winning another round, and locking up two of their best players enough to ameliorate the 7 years previous in our minds?

Again, not singling you out at all just curious about people's thoughts on this. Sports is such a "what have you done for me lately" business.I

I don't think owners care a lot about what the fan base thinks unless it starts bleeding over into Saddledome attendance. Making the playoffs and winning a round would be considered a big success for this organization as like I said before the bar is very low.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think owners care a lot about what the fan base thinks unless it starts bleeding over into Saddledome attendance. Making the playoffs and winning a round would be considered a big success for this organization as like I said before the bar is very low.

Again, I agree with your comments about the owners, but your original post that I quoted specifically referenced fans calling for the GM's head. I am asking what you (and others) as fans feel.

It certainly seems like there is a contingent of fans here that couldn't be swayed from their position by anything short of a cup win.

[Poe969]

I don't think thats fair, no one expects them to win the cup but maybe making the playoffs or being a threat to every year and maybe winning a couple rounds...not even in the same year. Just a little success would help. It's really the fact that this team has shown they aren't good enough but the team isn't doing anything about it. Treliving says he doesn't want to sell for pennies on the dollar so instead he's content with just having an average at best team.

[442scotty]

You know what Brad? Just sign Gaudreau and tkachuk to long term deals and we’ll cut you some slack…

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I don't think thats fair, no one expects them to win the cup but maybe making the playoffs or being a threat to every year and maybe winning a couple rounds...not even in the same year. Just a little success would help.

It's really the fact that this team has shown they aren't good enough but the team isn't doing anything about it.

Treliving says he doesn't want to sell for pennies on the dollar so instead he's content with just having an average at best team.

Flames were likely trying to generate a trade....

Same type of outcome as last summer, nothing materialized.

My belief, Flames have a really high value on their core players and trades are extremely tough to generate

Will be interesting to see how this team starts the season and how they are going to score enough to win the tough games

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

You know what Brad? Just sign Gaudreau and tkachuk to long term deals and we’ll cut you some slack…

Couldn't find a deal, couldn't extend the top guys.

Meanwhile stale core goes into another year and top guys get closer to expiring.

Rounding up a flock of bottom line/pairing players doesn't do much to help the peace of mind of the fans.

We still don't know where we're going, what the plan is and if Gaudreau/Tkachuk will be a part of those plans.