View Poll Results: What will happen to Brad Treliving after the end of the season?
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He should and will be fired
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167 |
17.06% |
He should be fired, but will continue as the Flames GM
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277 |
28.29% |
He should not and will not be fired
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288 |
29.42% |
He should not but will be fired
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27 |
2.76% |
Unsure if he should be, but he will be fired
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37 |
3.78% |
Unsure if he should be, but he will not be fired
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183 |
18.69% |
09-14-2021, 03:29 PM
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#5101
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saqe
It incredible how much support and backing up Treliving still gets from major community members here after seven years of delivering absolutely nothing. It's almost like there is a massive astroturfing campaign going on lol. It really boggles my mind.
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I think it's 100% fair to criticize him for mistakes he's actually made.
Brouwer, Neal, Elliott, Smith, Hamonic as player acquisitions.
Not getting value for Gio, Brodie, Hamonic, etc when it looked like free agency or the expansion draft would cause us to lose them.
I think the disconnect comes from the criticism of things that haven't happened. "Why didn't he make more moves?", "Why didn't he trade Monahan?", "He needs to change the core!"
Those are the criticisms that I don't think are valid.
The core has changed. 4 players that were regulars on our 17-18 roster play for this team.
Making moves isn't a sign of success. Philly made lots of moves this offseason. Edmonton made lots of moves. I'm not sure that qualifies as a good offseason. I'd rather he be a little quieter than do stuff like trade assets for Duncan Keith, or trade a 1st for Rasmus Ristolainen.
And when it comes to trading Monahan...unless you're getting offered a first round pick, or a top prospect, or a similar center then you're better off keeping him and hoping for a bounce back season.
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09-14-2021, 03:29 PM
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#5102
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18
I would need the 1st to be honest.
If the package doesn't include a first then I roll the dice on him hopefully being healthy and scoring 25 goals and hopefully you can get more with 1 year left on his deal next offseason.
And I still think that not protecting Gio was the right move, but the mistake he made there occured 3 months earlier.
He should have had the discussion with Gio at the trade deadline and if the plan wasn't to protect Gio then he should have moved him. I still think you could have gotten something valuable from Toronto who would have had a protection spot for him and he would have filled a need for them.
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Was Toronto willing and able to take on that final year of the deal? I do agree with you if they would have been interested.
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09-14-2021, 03:29 PM
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#5103
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
What amazes me is that some people can't imagine how others hold a different view - to the point that they get accused of silly things such as astroturfing.
THAT is what boggles the mind.
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Yeah exactly ...
"You have to agree with what I think or you're bought and paid for!"
That's some open mind stuff!
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09-14-2021, 03:32 PM
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#5104
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
What amazes me is that some people can't imagine how others hold a different view - to the point that they get accused of silly things such as astroturfing.
THAT is what boggles the mind.
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I mean Treliving has delivered absolutely nothing. If you have a different view of the sky not being blue, it doesn't make sense. Same as still defending Treliving, to me it makes no sense, it's not logical. You can add all sorts of caveats how he's had misfortunes with signings or been unlucky but every GM is in the same boat with that.
And by the way astroturfing is absolutely a thing. You can think it's silly to think it exists but it happens everywhere.
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09-14-2021, 03:32 PM
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#5105
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Was Toronto willing and able to take on that final year of the deal? I do agree with you if they would have been interested.
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I feel like you could have worked something out with a contender for Gio.
Might have needed to retain a little salary but I feel like there was probably a deal to be made.
Toronto would have probably wanted Kerfoot to be coming back the other way or something but I think a deal was there.
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09-14-2021, 03:40 PM
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#5106
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saqe
I mean Treliving has delivered absolutely nothing. If you have a different view of the sky not being blue, it doesn't make sense. Same as still defending Treliving, to me it makes no sense, it's not logical. You can add all sorts of caveats how he's had misfortunes with signings or been unlucky but every GM is in the same boat with that.
And by the way astroturfing is absolutely a thing. You can think it's silly to think it exists but it happens everywhere.
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So you're double down on "the only way to logically think is the way I think"
Well done!
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09-14-2021, 03:40 PM
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#5107
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18
I feel like you could have worked something out with a contender for Gio.
Might have needed to retain a little salary but I feel like there was probably a deal to be made.
Toronto would have probably wanted Kerfoot to be coming back the other way or something but I think a deal was there.
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Possibly. Knowing the Flames, retaining salary was never on the table as they were looking to spend to the cap again this year.
If there is one thing consistent about Treliving's tenure, they don't believe in sacrificing the present for the future.
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09-14-2021, 03:52 PM
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#5108
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
So you're double down on "the only way to logically think is the way I think"
Well done!
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Are you doubling down on Treliving's tenure being a success? Because I'm saying it's not and it's a results based league. Average doesn't get it done, or should not after seven years. That's why it's hard for me to understand what logic there is backing up Treliving at this point.
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09-14-2021, 04:08 PM
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#5109
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saqe
Are you doubling down on Treliving's tenure being a success? Because I'm saying it's not and it's a results based league. Average doesn't get it done, or should not after seven years. That's why it's hard for me to understand what logic there is backing up Treliving at this point.
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Have literally within the last hour pointed out several reasons that would justify Treliving being fired.
I'm not on that wagon personally (which means I'm on the payroll, can't recognize the colour of the sky, and have no logic in my thinking) because his bet wasn't an irrational one, and was likely one supported by ownership.
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09-14-2021, 04:12 PM
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#5110
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Have literally within the last hour pointed out several reasons that would justify Treliving being fired.
I'm not on that wagon personally (which means I'm on the payroll, can't recognize the colour of the sky, and have no logic in my thinking) because his bet wasn't an irrational one, and was likely one supported by ownership.
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Ok. I see sports franchises in general as result based organizations, not family business where you get by by making a rational bet or being a good guy etc. That's generally how things go down in sports. But it's a fair point, I guess you can view it from that perspective too. Cheers.
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09-14-2021, 04:25 PM
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#5111
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Franchise Player
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haha
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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09-14-2021, 05:07 PM
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#5112
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
So you think there's a lineup of good offers for
Monahan coming off two years of injury
or
Gaudreau after back to back seasons of disappointing results
or
Tkachuk who listed his way through a season and had his stats come off
and the current GM is saying no?
OK ...
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So you're saying the only fair offer for these players is at their former maximum value? Is that what you think a Flames GM needs to hold out for?
I'm saying their value today is what it is, and you move on from there. Wishing that the value was at it's former maximum will never let you move forward.
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09-14-2021, 05:09 PM
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#5113
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Franchise Player
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But in the case of a guy like Monahan where there is a diagnosed medical problem, do you sell him at his low point, or do you take the chance that he rebounds.
To be more pointed - would you trade him if the return was a 2nd round pick
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09-14-2021, 05:14 PM
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#5114
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saqe
It incredible how much support and backing up Treliving still gets from major community members here after seven years of delivering absolutely nothing. It's almost like there is a massive astroturfing campaign going on lol. It really boggles my mind.
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I'm literally on record as voting that he should be fired, and my reason is solely because of a 7 year lack of success.
However, I dislike reflexive or untrue criticisms and arguments, and I'm prepared to debate things that he did that are arguable, either pro or con.
It's almost like there's nuance to being an NHL GM.
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09-14-2021, 05:15 PM
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#5115
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Basement Chicken Choker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
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Everything you need to know about poorly formed opinions can be adequately explained by knowing that most people reason backwards from those opinions to justify them, and usually skip a few steps in their logic besides.
__________________
Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
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09-14-2021, 05:19 PM
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#5116
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
But in the case of a guy like Monahan where there is a diagnosed medical problem, do you sell him at his low point, or do you take the chance that he rebounds.
To be more pointed - would you trade him if the return was a 2nd round pick
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Probably not, but you also have no idea if that is all that is being offered. I would trade him for 1st and a good prospect. How do we know that Treliving hasn't been offered that and said no? Would you trade him for a 1st and a good prospect?
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09-14-2021, 05:25 PM
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#5117
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Found this in an article - just for info
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09-14-2021, 05:25 PM
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#5118
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Franchise Player
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Yes I would.
We also don't know what he has been offered. My point is that we agree that there is a point where the return is poor enough that the right call is NOT to trade him.
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09-14-2021, 05:31 PM
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#5119
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Franchise Player
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Are we supposed to guess what the GM's on that chart have in common or something? People that have never been in my kitchen?
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09-14-2021, 05:32 PM
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#5120
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikephoen
Probably not, but you also have no idea if that is all that is being offered. I would trade him for 1st and a good prospect. How do we know that Treliving hasn't been offered that and said no? Would you trade him for a 1st and a good prospect?
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It would have been interesting to know what he was offered the previous off season.
My guess is that trading him for draft capital was a non starter based on what we have seen.
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