Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > Fire on Ice: The Calgary Flames Forum

View Poll Results: What will happen to Brad Treliving after the end of the season?
He should and will be fired 167 17.06%
He should be fired, but will continue as the Flames GM 277 28.29%
He should not and will not be fired 288 29.42%
He should not but will be fired 27 2.76%
Unsure if he should be, but he will be fired 37 3.78%
Unsure if he should be, but he will not be fired 183 18.69%
Voters: 979. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-14-2021, 03:29 PM   #5101
SuperMatt18
Franchise Player
 
SuperMatt18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saqe View Post
It incredible how much support and backing up Treliving still gets from major community members here after seven years of delivering absolutely nothing. It's almost like there is a massive astroturfing campaign going on lol. It really boggles my mind.
I think it's 100% fair to criticize him for mistakes he's actually made.

Brouwer, Neal, Elliott, Smith, Hamonic as player acquisitions.

Not getting value for Gio, Brodie, Hamonic, etc when it looked like free agency or the expansion draft would cause us to lose them.

I think the disconnect comes from the criticism of things that haven't happened. "Why didn't he make more moves?", "Why didn't he trade Monahan?", "He needs to change the core!"

Those are the criticisms that I don't think are valid.

The core has changed. 4 players that were regulars on our 17-18 roster play for this team.

Making moves isn't a sign of success. Philly made lots of moves this offseason. Edmonton made lots of moves. I'm not sure that qualifies as a good offseason. I'd rather he be a little quieter than do stuff like trade assets for Duncan Keith, or trade a 1st for Rasmus Ristolainen.

And when it comes to trading Monahan...unless you're getting offered a first round pick, or a top prospect, or a similar center then you're better off keeping him and hoping for a bounce back season.
SuperMatt18 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
Old 09-14-2021, 03:29 PM   #5102
Strange Brew
Franchise Player
 
Strange Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18 View Post
I would need the 1st to be honest.

If the package doesn't include a first then I roll the dice on him hopefully being healthy and scoring 25 goals and hopefully you can get more with 1 year left on his deal next offseason.

And I still think that not protecting Gio was the right move, but the mistake he made there occured 3 months earlier.

He should have had the discussion with Gio at the trade deadline and if the plan wasn't to protect Gio then he should have moved him. I still think you could have gotten something valuable from Toronto who would have had a protection spot for him and he would have filled a need for them.
Was Toronto willing and able to take on that final year of the deal? I do agree with you if they would have been interested.
Strange Brew is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 03:29 PM   #5103
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
What amazes me is that some people can't imagine how others hold a different view - to the point that they get accused of silly things such as astroturfing.

THAT is what boggles the mind.
Yeah exactly ...

"You have to agree with what I think or you're bought and paid for!"

That's some open mind stuff!
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bingo For This Useful Post:
Old 09-14-2021, 03:32 PM   #5104
Saqe
First Line Centre
 
Saqe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
What amazes me is that some people can't imagine how others hold a different view - to the point that they get accused of silly things such as astroturfing.

THAT is what boggles the mind.



I mean Treliving has delivered absolutely nothing. If you have a different view of the sky not being blue, it doesn't make sense. Same as still defending Treliving, to me it makes no sense, it's not logical. You can add all sorts of caveats how he's had misfortunes with signings or been unlucky but every GM is in the same boat with that.



And by the way astroturfing is absolutely a thing. You can think it's silly to think it exists but it happens everywhere.
Saqe is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Saqe For This Useful Post:
Old 09-14-2021, 03:32 PM   #5105
SuperMatt18
Franchise Player
 
SuperMatt18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew View Post
Was Toronto willing and able to take on that final year of the deal? I do agree with you if they would have been interested.
I feel like you could have worked something out with a contender for Gio.

Might have needed to retain a little salary but I feel like there was probably a deal to be made.

Toronto would have probably wanted Kerfoot to be coming back the other way or something but I think a deal was there.
SuperMatt18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 03:40 PM   #5106
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saqe View Post
I mean Treliving has delivered absolutely nothing. If you have a different view of the sky not being blue, it doesn't make sense. Same as still defending Treliving, to me it makes no sense, it's not logical. You can add all sorts of caveats how he's had misfortunes with signings or been unlucky but every GM is in the same boat with that.



And by the way astroturfing is absolutely a thing. You can think it's silly to think it exists but it happens everywhere.
So you're double down on "the only way to logically think is the way I think"

Well done!
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 03:40 PM   #5107
Strange Brew
Franchise Player
 
Strange Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18 View Post
I feel like you could have worked something out with a contender for Gio.

Might have needed to retain a little salary but I feel like there was probably a deal to be made.

Toronto would have probably wanted Kerfoot to be coming back the other way or something but I think a deal was there.
Possibly. Knowing the Flames, retaining salary was never on the table as they were looking to spend to the cap again this year.

If there is one thing consistent about Treliving's tenure, they don't believe in sacrificing the present for the future.
Strange Brew is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Strange Brew For This Useful Post:
Old 09-14-2021, 03:52 PM   #5108
Saqe
First Line Centre
 
Saqe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
So you're double down on "the only way to logically think is the way I think"

Well done!

Are you doubling down on Treliving's tenure being a success? Because I'm saying it's not and it's a results based league. Average doesn't get it done, or should not after seven years. That's why it's hard for me to understand what logic there is backing up Treliving at this point.
Saqe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 04:08 PM   #5109
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saqe View Post
Are you doubling down on Treliving's tenure being a success? Because I'm saying it's not and it's a results based league. Average doesn't get it done, or should not after seven years. That's why it's hard for me to understand what logic there is backing up Treliving at this point.
Have literally within the last hour pointed out several reasons that would justify Treliving being fired.

I'm not on that wagon personally (which means I'm on the payroll, can't recognize the colour of the sky, and have no logic in my thinking) because his bet wasn't an irrational one, and was likely one supported by ownership.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bingo For This Useful Post:
Old 09-14-2021, 04:12 PM   #5110
Saqe
First Line Centre
 
Saqe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
Have literally within the last hour pointed out several reasons that would justify Treliving being fired.

I'm not on that wagon personally (which means I'm on the payroll, can't recognize the colour of the sky, and have no logic in my thinking) because his bet wasn't an irrational one, and was likely one supported by ownership.

Ok. I see sports franchises in general as result based organizations, not family business where you get by by making a rational bet or being a good guy etc. That's generally how things go down in sports. But it's a fair point, I guess you can view it from that perspective too. Cheers.
Saqe is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Saqe For This Useful Post:
Old 09-14-2021, 04:25 PM   #5111
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

haha
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
nik- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 05:07 PM   #5112
mikephoen
#1 Goaltender
 
mikephoen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
So you think there's a lineup of good offers for

Monahan coming off two years of injury

or

Gaudreau after back to back seasons of disappointing results

or

Tkachuk who listed his way through a season and had his stats come off

and the current GM is saying no?

OK ...
So you're saying the only fair offer for these players is at their former maximum value? Is that what you think a Flames GM needs to hold out for?

I'm saying their value today is what it is, and you move on from there. Wishing that the value was at it's former maximum will never let you move forward.
mikephoen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 05:09 PM   #5113
Jiri Hrdina
Franchise Player
 
Jiri Hrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Exp:
Default

But in the case of a guy like Monahan where there is a diagnosed medical problem, do you sell him at his low point, or do you take the chance that he rebounds.

To be more pointed - would you trade him if the return was a 2nd round pick
Jiri Hrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 05:14 PM   #5114
GioforPM
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saqe View Post
It incredible how much support and backing up Treliving still gets from major community members here after seven years of delivering absolutely nothing. It's almost like there is a massive astroturfing campaign going on lol. It really boggles my mind.
I'm literally on record as voting that he should be fired, and my reason is solely because of a 7 year lack of success.

However, I dislike reflexive or untrue criticisms and arguments, and I'm prepared to debate things that he did that are arguable, either pro or con.

It's almost like there's nuance to being an NHL GM.
GioforPM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 05:15 PM   #5115
jammies
Basement Chicken Choker
 
jammies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
Exp:
Default

Everything you need to know about poorly formed opinions can be adequately explained by knowing that most people reason backwards from those opinions to justify them, and usually skip a few steps in their logic besides.
__________________
Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
jammies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 05:19 PM   #5116
mikephoen
#1 Goaltender
 
mikephoen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
But in the case of a guy like Monahan where there is a diagnosed medical problem, do you sell him at his low point, or do you take the chance that he rebounds.

To be more pointed - would you trade him if the return was a 2nd round pick
Probably not, but you also have no idea if that is all that is being offered. I would trade him for 1st and a good prospect. How do we know that Treliving hasn't been offered that and said no? Would you trade him for a 1st and a good prospect?
mikephoen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 05:25 PM   #5117
GioforPM
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
Exp:
Default

Found this in an article - just for info

GioforPM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GioforPM For This Useful Post:
Old 09-14-2021, 05:25 PM   #5118
Jiri Hrdina
Franchise Player
 
Jiri Hrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Exp:
Default

Yes I would.
We also don't know what he has been offered. My point is that we agree that there is a point where the return is poor enough that the right call is NOT to trade him.
Jiri Hrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 05:31 PM   #5119
Strange Brew
Franchise Player
 
Strange Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Are we supposed to guess what the GM's on that chart have in common or something? People that have never been in my kitchen?
Strange Brew is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 05:32 PM   #5120
Strange Brew
Franchise Player
 
Strange Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikephoen View Post
Probably not, but you also have no idea if that is all that is being offered. I would trade him for 1st and a good prospect. How do we know that Treliving hasn't been offered that and said no? Would you trade him for a 1st and a good prospect?
It would have been interesting to know what he was offered the previous off season.

My guess is that trading him for draft capital was a non starter based on what we have seen.
Strange Brew is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:30 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021