[News] UPD: Habs do not match Canes offer sheet to Jesperi Kotkaniemi (1 yr, $6.1 mil)

[Ped]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If the team and the player honour the deal even though if the subsequent year suggests the agreed upon contract is now ludicrous, it would be cap circumvention. Proving it would be very difficult I admit.

But it takes a few people lie about it.

If KK gets a 30-30-60 season, does he still sign a 6 year $3M deal?

I doubt it. They may have agreed on a deal in principle, but both sides understand that the subsequent year could very well change things.

If both sides have the clear intention to honour that deal regardless, that is cap circumvention,


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Even if he has a breakout season and they have already basically agreed to a long-term extension for 3 million per, that is in no way cap circumvention.

[blender]

Why do so many people believe that there is a handshake deal?

Why would any player or team agree to such a thing?
It doesn't make sense.
Carolina wanted the player and they tendered an offer sheet that they knew would get it done.

If Carolina likes what they are seeing from the player they will offer him a longer term contract as soon as they are allowed and if the player likes the offer, he will sign it. If he doesn't like it he will play for his QO, or become a UFA.

This isn't complicated.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by blender

Why do so many people believe that there is a handshake deal?

Why would any player or team agree to such a thing?
It doesn't make sense.
Carolina wanted the player and they tendered an offer sheet that they knew would get it done.

If Carolina likes what they are seeing from the player they will offer him a longer term contract as soon as they are allowed and if the player likes the offer, he will sign it. If he doesn't like it he will play for his QO, or become a UFA.

This isn't complicated.

The team still gets to talk to the agent and the player and get a sense of things. Obviously the player and the agent know it is an overpay to get the player into the teams system. The player still has to want to sign and more importantly, want to be part of that new team. If Kotkaniemi thinks it is a great fit for him, which he probably does, I think him and his agent know what Carolina is doing by going out on a limb to get him. He gets a decent payday through this process so I don't know why they wouldn't be on the same page after the season.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Robbob

The team still gets to talk to the agent and the player and get a sense of things. Obviously the player and the agent know it is an overpay to get the player into the teams system. The player still has to want to sign and more importantly, want to be part of that new team. If Kotkaniemi thinks it is a great fit for him, which he probably does, I think him and his agent know what Carolina is doing by going out on a limb to get him. He gets a decent payday through this process so I don't know why they wouldn't be on the same page after the season.

All true, but there is a big difference between going into a deal eyes wide open and having a long term contract agreed to by handshake.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Locke

As I was always told: "Verbal Agreements arent worth the paper they're written on."

All agreements are verbal since they use words. Oral agreements are generally binding, unless you’ve previously stipulated otherwise. Th difficulty comes in the proof if one side backs out or breaks the deal.

Now, an NHL player contract has to be in writing because the CBA prescribes the formalities.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

All agreements are verbal since they use words. Oral agreements are generally binding, unless you’ve previously stipulated otherwise. Th difficulty comes in the proof if one side backs out or breaks the deal.

Now, an NHL player contract has to be in writing because the CBA prescribes the formalities.

From Merriam-Webster: 3: spoken rather than written
a verbal contract

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So if KK backs up his 20 pts season with another 36 game 8 pt -11 season does the "secret handshake" agreement for 3M x 6 still stand?

The taunting in French now seems like a playground attempt to get the Habs to match.

I think this backfired on the Canes big time..... Who doesn't match an offer sheet......oopps

The Canes have filled the hole they created when they traded Warren Foegele for Ethan Bear. over the last 2 seasons Foegele has been a much better player than KK

Warren Foegele 6-2 198 25 years old 3 x 2.750

121 games 23 goals 50 pts .41 ppg +12 47 ES pts 3 SH pts 13:54 TOI/game


Kotkanemi 6-2 198 21 years old 1 x 6.100035

92 games 11 goals 28 pts .3 ppg -12 21 ES pts 14:02 TOI/game

Having Kotkanemi as #3LW doesn't make the Canes a better team than they were in
20-21

Ethan Bear might be lacking in replacing Dougie Hamilton's 40 pts from defense.

Anyone offer sheeting Kotkanemi isn't worried about his ppg vs a player that is five years older.

They're buying more into the 3rd overall pick level projection.

That's the gamble. Looking at two and a half years of counting stats (two of those seasons nuked by covid and shortened) isn't the best way to assess the value.

[stemit14]

Curious if Montreal management fires back at Carolina somehow isn’t he coming years… an offer sheet to another Carolina player? Montreal started this feud with their offer sheet to Aho but… like any fight it’s usually about getting that last hit. Not sure if Carolina has any RFAs upcoming that Montreal could even pull this off with.


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[Ped]

Not sure if Carolina has any RFAs upcoming that Montreal could even pull this off with.

Kotkaniemi is a free agent next summer.


In all seriousness, Necas would be a good target if he makes it that far.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Ped

Kotkaniemi is a free agent next summer.
In all seriousness, Necas would be a good target if he makes it that far.

The problem with signing a guy like Necas is that it would have to be a stupid overpay for Carolina not to match and it won't be a one year over pay.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by VilleN

From Merriam-Webster: 3: spoken rather than written
a verbal contract

Yeah, I don’t care, that’s a colloquialism - we learned in law school it’s oral contract, not verbal because all contracts using words are “verbal”.

What were 1 and 2?

[Bonded]

More how I take the whole verbal contract thing is that they probably discussed some options and ranges to get aligned on expectations.

[GioforPM]

I think the handshake agreement is discussed merely because there’s no way he’s worth the salary on the present contract, so people are trying to conceive of a way it makes sense.

[Robbob]

I also think people get to bent out of shape of the qualifying offer. It can be an issue, but in those cases it is for a player that doesn't want to be in that organization. I think the Kotkaniemi is pretty simple. He didn't want to be part of the Habs any more. Sounds like he wants to be in Carolina and through discussions both team and player are on the same page. They overpaid to get him in Carolina and he will probably reciprocate when signing that next deal. The whole scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

This is pretty much what you need an offer sheet to be in order to pry the player away from another team. You need to offer the player about double of what the current worth is. In this case you could say it's even triple of what he should have realistically been paid for this upcoming year. So as much as I like the offer sheet and the revenge factor. I don't like seeing higher potential low production guys getting paid like this off an entry level contract. If this deal starts being used as a comparable in Arbitration cases look out.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, I don’t care, that’s a colloquialism - we learned in law school it’s oral contract, not verbal because all contracts using words are “verbal”.

What were 1 and 2?

I think they were using it colloquially. 1 or 2 was essentially your definition… just pointing out that the previous poster didn’t use it incorrectly and no correction was needed.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am guessing that a part of the agreement between the team and the player is that the new agreed-upon extension needs to be signed at the earliest opportunity, which I believe is in January. I would imagine that by mid-season both the team and the player will still be comfortable with the number and term on the extension.

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That’s the point, there cannot be any agreement between the team and the player. Whatever may have been talked about, there cannot be any kind of binding agreement.


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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

That’s the point, there cannot be any agreement between the team and the player. Whatever may have been talked about, there cannot be any kind of binding agreement.


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Who said anything about "binding"?

I think it is fairly uncontroversial to think that there would have been some discussion about what an extension would look like; there have been media suggestions that this is precisely what has happened. If Kotkaniemi is happy in Carolina I think there is a very good chance he signs a long-term deal at the earliest opportunity. I know this is absolutely astonishing to some posters here, but not everyone in the world is determined to squeeze every last cent out of his employer at all costs. Some players will prioritise their long-term stability and comfort within an organization even at the expense of what they (might) get on offer from elsewhere.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I think they were using it colloquially. 1 or 2 was essentially your definition… just pointing out that the previous poster didn’t use it incorrectly and no correction was needed.

Nevertheless, it happened.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Who said anything about "binding"?

I think it is fairly uncontroversial to think that there would have been some discussion about what an extension would look like; there have been media suggestions that this is precisely what has happened. If Kotkaniemi is happy in Carolina I think there is a very good chance he signs a long-term deal at the earliest opportunity. I know this is absolutely astonishing to some posters here, but not everyone in the world is determined to squeeze every last cent out of his employer at all costs. Some players will prioritise their long-term stability and comfort within an organization even at the expense of what they (might) get on offer from elsewhere.

It is incumbent on a professional athlete with a finite shelf life to do precisely this. Especially in their prime earning years.

I'd agree that the dynamics change later in the career.