[Trade] Coyotes trade Dvorak to Montreal for a conditional 2022 1st + Habs 2024 2nd

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Where would he slot in on the Flames?

Dvorak 25 years old 35 goals over the last 2 years 4 x 4.45
Monahan 26 years old 32 goals - 2 x 6.325
Backlund 31 years old 25 goals - 3 x 5.35

There would be plenty of excitement if the Flames were to make the same trade and go into the season with

Gaudreau-Dvorak-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Coleman

as the top-6

Lindholm is the Flames #1 center right now. Monahan, despite playing injured, has more points in the last two years while playing fewer games. If you look at the last three years, it's a landslide in Monahan's favor. Backlund is the far superior defensive player and has more points than Dvorak in every season so far.

There's a chance Dvorak would be the 4th best centre in the team.

I would be quite disappointed if the Flames had traded their first for yet another mid six player.

[jesters91]

Calgary & Montreal are in two different positions. It’s not apples to apples discussing the Dvorak trade.

One team missed the playoffs and according to their GM needed changes to the core. The team only has 5 draft picks at the next draft.

The other went to the SCF’s and had a need for a C after the KK offer sheet. Even after trading 1st (2022) and 2nd (2024) they still have 11 picks remaining at the upcoming draft. Dvorak will slot in as the 2C. Is capable of filling this position. His trajectory has been upwards since he entered the league. Will play with better wingers in Montreal.

Flames do not / did not have the luxury of trading a 1st in 2022 for this player. That doesn’t mean it won’t end up being a good deal for Montreal.

[Geeoff]

In a vacuum, if you ignore the Kotkaniemi offer sheet, this seems like a lot to give up for a player that hasn't hit 40 points (granted the last two seasons were shortened)

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Not sure how this changes anything for Carolina. They still lose the same picks.

Of course it changes things. This wasn't a rational offer sheet by Carolina. It was strictly vengeance and made with emotion. Trading those picks away and getting Dvorak is another win for Carolina. They would probably sweat a bit knowing Montreal made great picks with their emotionally charged offer sheet picks.

[Kipper_3434]

The NHL needs a relegation league . The perpetual tanking of Buffalo and Arizona is a blight on competitive hockey.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

This is such a tired take. They don't "get" to play a game for a living. They earned it.

Yes, they earned the right to play a game for a living, nobody's arguing that (and that's pretty obvious and should go without saying). I'm still not going to feel sorry for someone having to move, when getting relocated is part of their job.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

The NHL needs a relegation league . The perpetual tanking of Buffalo and Arizona is a blight on competitive hockey.

New Flames organizational goal: don't get relegated.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

New Flames organizational goal: don't get relegated.

Funny joke, but realistically that would never have been a concern.

Flames have never been that bad.

I think a lot of people who moan about the Flames have no concept of what it is actually like to cheer for a bad sports team.

Granted, watching them piss away 6 years of Johnny Gaudreau is maddening, but it isn't like being a fan of the Sabres; that is another level.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

The NHL needs a relegation league . The perpetual tanking of Buffalo and Arizona is a blight on competitive hockey.

The Coyotes were a playoff team one year ago

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

The Coyotes were a playoff team one year ago

So you are saying they aren't tanking right now, and haven't in the past? That simply isn't true. Throw ottawa in there too despite more recent playoff success they sell young players and TANK.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by blender

Funny joke, but realistically that would never have been a concern.

Flames have never been that bad.

I think a lot of people who moan about the Flames have no concept of what it is actually like to cheer for a bad sports team.

Granted, watching them piss away 6 years of Johnny Gaudreau is maddening, but it isn't like being a fan of the Sabres; that is another level.

40 years, one championship, two other season with serious runs and then 37 years of basically nothing. 31 of those years are basically consecutive with one miracle run in the middle.

Just because they're not the worst and squeak into the playoffs every few years doesn't mean the Flames aren't bad.

[blender]

Originally Posted by nik-

40 years, one championship, two other season with serious runs and then 37 years of basically nothing. 31 of those years are basically consecutive with one miracle run in the middle.

Just because they're not the worst and squeak into the playoffs every few years doesn't mean the Flames aren't bad.

I was responding to a post referring to relegation.
Try and keep up.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by blender

I was responding to a post referring to relegation.
Try and keep up.

You still made a totally incorrect statement as the crux as your refutal.

Flames fans are well aware what it's like to cheer for a bad team.

[blender]

Originally Posted by nik-

You still made a totally incorrect statement as the crux as your refutal.

Flames fans are well aware what it's like to cheer for a bad team.

No. They aren't, as they have never been truly bad. At their worst it has been short-lived.

Frankly the people who constantly moan about how bad the Flames are a tiresome and entitled group.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

The NHL needs a relegation league . The perpetual tanking of Buffalo and Arizona is a blight on competitive hockey.

You sure you really want this as a Flames fan?

They’ve never been outright terrible but if there are teams the NHL could afford to lose you bet Calgary is near the top of the list.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by blender

No. They aren't, as they have never been truly bad. At their worst it has been short-lived.

Frankly the people who constantly moan about how bad the Flames are a tiresome and entitled group.

Delusional "it's not so bad" fans are so much better. Its the reason it continues so long. You go ahead lie to yourself, don't expect others to.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by nik-

Delusional "it's not so bad" fans are so much better. Its the reason it continues so long. You go ahead lie to yourself, don't expect others to.

Nothing you as a fan believe or disbelieve has any effect on the product on the ice. The fans are not ‘the reason it continues so long’.

The only people here lying to themselves are the ones who think their attitude makes any difference at all. What the Flames do is entirely out of your control.

[blender]

Originally Posted by nik-

Delusional "it's not so bad" fans are so much better. Its the reason it continues so long. You go ahead lie to yourself, don't expect others to.

I'm not lying to anyone, least of all myself.
I'm not happy with the direction of the team or the lack of measurable success.
I stated that they pissed away 6 years of the best player they've had since Iggy.
It sucks.
All I'm saying is that there is a big difference between the Flames lack of success and the truly awful teams that would be threatened by relegation, were it a thing in the NHL.
It's actually a very simple and straightforward point I'm making. Not sure why this is a battle you want to fight.

[Ashasx]

at least we're not bad enough to get relegated.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by blender

I'm not lying to anyone, least of all myself.
I'm not happy with the direction of the team or the lack of measurable success.
I stated that they pissed away 6 years of the best player they've had since Iggy.
It sucks.
All I'm saying is that there is a big difference between the Flames lack of success and the truly awful teams that would be threatened by relegation, were it a thing in the NHL.
It's actually a very simple and straightforward point I'm making. Not sure why this is a battle you want to fight.

Because the Flames absolutely are bad enough to get relegated, when we get down to brass tacks. Sure there are teams that are worse, but those same teams have interesting young talent that warrant attention.

I guarantee other teams’ fans talk about the Flames the same way we talk about the Wild. Forgettable Tuesday night fodder in the middle of January that nobody would miss outside of our own niche market.