2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

I wanted to address the bolded part of your post above. It's possible that the other teams are offering a fair price for Flames assets, and Treliving is over-valuing his own players. In that case, a fresh voice could come in, look at the offers that are available and decide they're fair and make some deals.

Another possibility is that Treliving isn't well thought of by the other GMs. We know the GM fraternity is pretty much an old boys club, and like any club there are cliques within the club. Is Treliving one of the 'cool kids' or is he still an outsider? Maybe his reputation of being in on everything is starting to work against him because other GMs don't want to discuss the same valuations over and over. A fresh voice might sound great to other GMs, especially if the new GM is more aligned with the other old boys. If a new GM had won a Stanley Cup with Kevyn Adams, that could be the in the Flames need to make an Eichel deal.

It could be like the Calgary Event Centre negotiation. Once Nenshi and King stepped away from the table and some fresh voices became involved the deal got made in fairly short order. Sometimes all it takes is a fresh voice to move forward.

I’d agree with you if Treliving had screwed someone over like Bergevan in Montreal. But he hasn’t from what I’ve seen. So I’m not sure if your scenario makes sense.

[Vinny01]

I don’t know how many of you all watch the Marvel show ‘What if’ but I was thinking about how this summer and lack of activity went down and some of the players that have moved and where they would fit with the Flames. The 2 players that come to mind and their cost would be Sam Reinhart and Christian Dvorak.

Flames trade Coronato pick + Panthers 2nd for Dvorak
Flames trade 22 1st + Wolf for Reinhart

It would be tough to make the cap work so maybe Dube gets squeezed on a 1 year deal, Reinhart maybe gets max term for slightly less cap. The Pitlick trade and Coleman signing does not happen in this scenario. Flames add 2 25 year old top 6 forwards for futures. They add to core and Gio remains the only subtraction

Tkachuk-Dvorak-Lindholm
Gaudreau-Monahan-Reinhart
Mangiapane-Backlund-Dube
Lucic-Lewis-Ritchie

Hanifin-Tanev
Zadorov-Andersson
Valimaki-Mackey
Kylington

Markstrom
Vlader

In this scenario the Flames pay the same price to get 2 guys they feel give them the best chance to win now while not deleting from the core up front. In one way this would make sense as the team is all in with Sutter and these guys add immediate pop to the lineup but are also not over the hill. It doesn’t make sense considering this team has a weak prospect pool and is on the verge of a tear down and not in position to go all in.

Another way to look at it. Reinhart+Dvorak = 10.95M in cap and hypothetically cost 2 1st, 2nd, Wolf. It is safe to assume Eichel will cost more to acquire than those 2 players and is only $900k cheaper. Should the Flames have gone all in on the 2 players as opposed to try and wait out this Eichel situation? Are the Flames making the best decision and just keep their futures, use their money on free agents and see if this team has a bounce back year with a few key guys chasing new deals?

With Dvorak and Reinhart the Flames were linked to both players and I think this what if scenario is an interesting one to ponder. The message to me would be they are all in for the next few years and feel they just needed to add to their current core of forwards. Many would probably hate it and understandably so. Spending high end futures on good but not great players but I think many would come around to the depth it would add.

[Jiri Hrdina]

It’s an interesting question but I think what the Flames lack is more so truly elite talent. Which is why I in favour of getting Eichel as opposed to adding depth

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It’s an interesting question but I think what the Flames lack is more so truly elite talent. Which is why I in favour of getting Eichel as opposed to adding depth

Agreed. Dvorak seems like an intriguing player, but does he change the trajectory of this team? I doubt it.

For several reasons, I think Treliving is in on Eichel, big. The Flames need to pick a lane and recent signs point towards competing now. Not sure if that would be my choice, but it is the direction I think they will go in,

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It’s an interesting question but I think what the Flames lack is more so truly elite talent. Which is why I in favour of getting Eichel as opposed to adding depth

The biggest issue with Acquiring Eichel is the probability of doing so. It’s premised on Buffalo not getting offers better than what we are prepared to do. By all accounts, our prospect base is lesser than what others who are in the Eichel sweepstakes have and by virtue, our offer would be less attractive than other teams. I see this ending with us as the bridesmaid again.

Treliving speaks in vague terms of improving the team. I’m coming around to the idea that this will involve addition without significant subtraction. We have that extra second rounder in the Bennett deal, maybe that or our own second can be used to take on a decent player (albeit not elite) that will help our top 9. Example. Is the team improved with Lucic not playing in our top 9? Probably. Qualifies as improving the team.

[mile]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

The biggest issue with Acquiring Eichel is the probability of doing so. It’s premised on Buffalo not getting offers better than what we are prepared to do. By all accounts, our prospect base is lesser than what others who are in the Eichel sweepstakes have and by virtue, our offer would be less attractive than other teams. I see this ending with us as the bridesmaid again.

Treliving speaks in vague terms of improving the team. I’m coming around to the idea that this will involve addition without significant subtraction. We have that extra second rounder in the Bennett deal, maybe that or our own second can be used to take on a decent player (albeit not elite) that will help our top 9. Example. Is the team improved with Lucic not playing in our top 9? Probably. Qualifies as improving the team.

That’s assuming those teams are willing to part with their blue-chippers… I don’t see teams willing to give up a Drysdale/Zegras/Rossi/Kakko type piece. Zero chance a Lafreniere or Byfield gets moved too.

Zary and Pelletier are both top 50 prospects, if both are included with a 1st and roster player that’s a competitive offer. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Flames had the best deal on the table right now and are playing the waiting game right now to see if Buffalo blinks.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by mile

Zary and Pelletier are both top 50 prospects, if both are included with a 1st and roster player that’s a competitive offer. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Flames had the best deal on the table right now and are playing the waiting game right now to see if Buffalo blinks.

It could also be the case that the Flames had an offer of that calibre on the table, and took it off the table when the calendar rolled around to September with no sign of Eichel getting his surgery.

Every day that goes by, his recovery eats deeper into the season and makes him less attractive to possible trade partners. At some point teams won't be offering anything but futures for Eichel, since they won't be getting him on their roster in time to make a difference in '21-22.

I suspect several GMs have left voicemails to Adams saying words to the effect of, ‘Call me back if you ever get your poop in a group.’

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by mile

Zary and Pelletier are both top 50 prospects, if both are included with a 1st and roster player that’s a competitive offer. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Flames had the best deal on the table right now and are playing the waiting game right now to see if Buffalo blinks.

Sorry, but no. Every team has them.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Sorry, but no. Every team has them.

Most lists have them in the 40-50 range
But yes most teams have prospects like them. If you are talking top 50 prospects that means most teams have 1 or 2
Doesn’t mean they aren’t good prospects

[blender]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Sorry, but no. Every team has them.

What do you think top-50 prospect means?

[Roof-Daddy]

lol there is 32 teams.

Of course every team has "top 50" type prospects.

That was a hot take.

[mile]

The big question is how many teams are willing to offer more than one of their top 50 type prospects though.

From the rumoured offers that have been floating out there, teams are offering just one of these prospects but not multiple. For example, NYR offering just Kravstov (ranked #37 on THW's Top 100 list that was released last week, #16 on Craig Button's top 75 list), VGK offering Krebs (#17 THW, #20 Button).

After thinking about the rumoured trade offer EE mentioned earlier this week (Pelletier, Zary, Monahan, 1st), I can sort of believe it. The Flames were willing to drop down twice in that 2020 draft and were okay with picking from a group of players they had in the same tier as Zary (#44 THW, #36 Button), I don't think they would have any problem including him in their offer. Pelletier (#47 THW, #51 Button) seems redundant with Mangiapane and Dube already on the roster and Coronato in the pipeline. The Flames have been trying to move Monahan since last off-season at least, and as far has established NHlers go, he might be the best one being offered to Buffalo. After seeing the returns for Dvorak and Reinhart, Monahan could fetch at least a 1st if he improves his numbers with top line minutes and PP time - I don't think a player like Reilly Smith would.

I also think that if the Flames didn't believe their offer was good enough or weren't prepared to add to it if Buffalo got a better offer later, they would have moved on already and used their cap space on another trade or signing.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

lol there is 32 teams.

Of course every team has "top 50" type prospects.

That was a hot take.

With 32 teams, if you have two in the top 50, you're batting above your weight.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I agree with this, Sutter will squeeze a lot out of this team in a full season. They will probably make the playoffs.

However, I have my doubts that if the core forwards stay the same, the same guys that haven't been able to do so in the past, will now have the ability to raise their level and take over games in the playoffs.

Sutter is a great coach and I would never write off a team under his coaching, but I don't believe coaching has been the main issue with this team for a few years. Sutter's results last year did not differ much from Ward's and that to me is a big red flag. It's just my opinion, but I think this team is in a downward spiral and a great coach like Sutter can slow it down or tread water with this group at the most. Yes, that could mean squeaking into the playoffs, but I wouldn't expect much more than that.

I have a strong feeling that this team will be sellers by the deadline this season. I'm not even mad to tell you the truth. They should be rebuilding at this point and if it takes a disaster this year to force the issue, then so be it.

I would love to be wrong of course, and could easily be.

[Huntingwhale]

I think taking a bet that Sutter is able to turn this team around and make a good run with this roster is a losing bet. Love Sutter. HOF coach. But this team is full of so many holes that failed to get plugged. It really is a losing bet, and 30 years of mediocrity lead do not lead me to believe that there is a solid plan in place.

If the fate of this team is placed on the laurels of the head coach...god help us. IMO way too much faith put in Sutter to be able to turn this around .

Then again...if ever there was a single head coach in NHL history to turn water into wine, it's god damn Darryl Sutter .

I think this upcoming season really is a toss of the coin and could go either way. I suppose if Markstrom plays like a solid #1 all season and stays healthy, Andersson and Valimaki take big steps forward, Hanifin solidifies himself as a top pairing D, Manginer and Dube both take steps forward, Tkachuk bounces back, and the purple Gatorade crew makes a comeback, then this team will be alright.

Lots of things have to go right though. We'll see if Sutter really is the magician to mix it all together, or whether it's a big steamy pile of crap by month #2 and a slog to the trade deadline.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Sorry, but no. Every team has them.

Nope. Using this list as a guide there are only 25 teams represented in the top 50. That means seven teams (Boston, Columbus, NY Islanders, Pittsburgh, San Jose, St. Louis, and Tampa) have no prospects in the top 50. Also, some teams only have a single prospect on the list (Arizona, Carolina, Chicago, Nashville, Seattle, Vancouver, and Vegas). So that is 14 teams who do not have two prospects in the top 50. Every team does not have them.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I think taking a bet that Sutter is able to turn this team around and make a good run with this roster is a losing bet. Love Sutter. HOF coach. But this team is full of so many holes that failed to get plugged. It really is a losing bet, and 30 years of mediocrity lead do not lead me to believe that there is a solid plan in place.

If the fate of this team is placed on the laurels of the head coach...god help us. IMO way too much faith put in Sutter to be able to turn this around .

Then again...if ever there was a single head coach in NHL history to turn water into wine, it's god damn Darryl Sutter .

I think this upcoming season really is a toss of the coin and could go either way. I suppose if Markstrom plays like a solid #1 all season and stays healthy, Andersson and Valimaki take big steps forward, Hanifin solidifies himself as a top pairing D, Manginer and Dube both take steps forward, Tkachuk bounces back, and the purple Gatorade crew makes a comeback, then this team will be alright.

Lots of things have to go right though. We'll see if Sutter really is the magician to mix it all together, or whether it's a big steamy pile of crap by month #2 and a slog to the trade deadline.

That's the problem right now with the fan's and teams' expectations - everything has to go right for this team to be a playoff contender. There are simply too many IFs to realistically think this team truly has a solid chance.

• Sutter has to coach well
• Monahan has to come back from injury
• Johnny and Keith Jr have to bounce back
• Markstrom has to bounce back from injury
• Anderson and Valamaki have to have developed this off-season
• Dube has to have got in shape and get to the next level

They're also banking on some of the new additions changing the culture of the locker room and not being absorbed by the existing culture, which, could be a hope in the wind. Anyway, I think all combined there is a very small chance this team is substantially better than last years. I think last year everything that could've gone wrong did go wrong, but the core has more or less remained the same which is an obvious wrong that hasn't been addressed. Let's see, but I'm on the skeptical side at this point when it's been the same song and dance for about three off-seasons.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by fleury

That's the problem right now with the fan's and teams' expectations - everything has to go right for this team to be a playoff contender. There are simply too many IFs to realistically think this team truly has a solid chance.

• Sutter has to coach well
• Monahan has to come back from injury
• Johnny and Keith Jr have to bounce back
• Markstrom has to bounce back from injury
• Anderson and Valamaki have to have developed this off-season
• Dube has to have got in shape and get to the next level

They're also banking on some of the new additions changing the culture of the locker room and not being absorbed by the existing culture, which, could be a hope in the wind. Anyway, I think all combined there is a very small chance this team is substantially better than last years. I think last year everything that could've gone wrong did go wrong, but the core has more or less remained the same which is an obvious wrong that hasn't been addressed. Let's see, but I'm on the skeptical side at this point when it's been the same song and dance for about three off-seasons.

I think some Ifs can be sorted though.

Sutter has to coach well? Can't we put a check beside that one?
Monahan ... I've heard his surgery was successful, so I think it likely he's better than when he was injured.
Tkachuk and Gaudreau had already rebounded under Sutter, so they have to keep that up.
Markstrom is less likely to be injured under a Sutter system.

But then yeah ... I think the young defense taking a step is a huge issue, and one that may be the biggest issue for the team.

I think Mangiapane will be ok, still not sure what they have in Dube.

Huntingwale's if list was long, but if it all went the right way (highly unlikely), this team wouldn't be "all right", they'd be conference contenders.

I think we see an improvement and a solid playoff team, but not a contending team. And hopefully some playoff success with a team used to playing that style.

[transplant99]

I think the single biggest thing that changes this year beyond the 20% turnover of the roster from last year is Sutter having this group from day 1 AND getting a full TC with them. Its been very under valued IMO.

What that translates too over the season will only be determined with time, but this club will be better as a whole defensively and that should result in a better finish points wise.

Just be ready for a ton of 2-1 and 3-2 type games and hope like hell the Flames are on the right side of a majority of them

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by fleury

That's the problem right now with the fan's and teams' expectations - everything has to go right for this team to be a playoff contender. There are simply too many IFs to realistically think this team truly has a solid chance.

• Sutter has to coach well
• Monahan has to come back from injury
• Johnny and Keith Jr have to bounce back
• Markstrom has to bounce back from injury
• Anderson and Valamaki have to have developed this off-season
• Dube has to have got in shape and get to the next level

They're also banking on some of the new additions changing the culture of the locker room and not being absorbed by the existing culture, which, could be a hope in the wind. Anyway, I think all combined there is a very small chance this team is substantially better than last years. I think last year everything that could've gone wrong did go wrong, but the core has more or less remained the same which is an obvious wrong that hasn't been addressed. Let's see, but I'm on the skeptical side at this point when it's been the same song and dance for about three off-seasons.

Details are important, this we know about Sutter. He knows when a rookie makes a mistake, he knows if he has had poor goaltending. With him, it is all about addressing the details.

Flames took too long to solidify the coaching situation, but for now, it does provide for some much better stability. Sutter has brought key people with experience which should help get key players playing the right way and making fewer mistakes. No more experimenting with ideas and fitting square pegs into round holes. Now the Flames need to be shrewd in trades that target impact players.

Too many players brought in didn't have what it takes, is Treliving using his scouts, or is he making his own trades? Add Sutter to the equation and he is probably going to get a better evaluation of the players coming in. Sutter knows what he wants, size, speed, skill, heart. I have read interviews where Sutter was constantly talking to his staff about ways and strategies to beat certain teams in the playoffs. He can't do this if the team is not holding up their end of the bargain. I think we have reasons to be optimistic about this coaching staff. With Sutter at the helm, if there are problems higher up, they are more likely to be identified and addressed. Treliving is not going to get away with bringing nonimpactful players.

We can summarize that the organizational and team expectations are going to be much higher this season. Sutter "hates" losing and that theme will be imparted onto every player. If he gets the players believing they are "underdogs", they can beat anybody. The players are likely in better physical and mental shape this season to do it. Goaltending, Sutter was quick to point out it wasn't good enough. If Jacob Markström stands on his head and wins games it puts the ball back on the players.

Lots to be optimistic about.