Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

This thread is the bane of my existence.

It’s kind of funny how many posts are happening given no update on either topic

Hilariously, some guy suggested breaking it in to two (more focused?)
threads

[Gaudreau is a Ninja]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

This thread is the bane of my existence.

I hear you! Am I about to read about an Eichel Rumour or possibly a Gaudreau signing update…….neither

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

You don't think Treliving should have traded a 1st and a 2nd for Dvorak....right?

If not, im not sure what you are going on about here.

I don't view this as trading a first and second for Dvorak. I see it as ultimately trading Kotkaniemi for Dvorak. The Habs found themselves with a gapping hole in their lineup and were able to put a deal together to resolve using resources available to them. The picks were for a future draft, so zero help for next season. Montreal had benefit of not trading their own assets, they were trading change found in the couch. They went out and did what it took to make their team better and did so in a a couple of days.

I also obviously don't view these picks as valuable as some of you do. These are likely going to be picks in be somewhere in the 20-30 and 50-60 range. Those are picks where a guy is likely going to take four to five years to play in the NHL and have any impact. That's a long time for a team that just went to the Stanley Cup final and believes they can complete right now. So those picks are less valuable that people are suggesting. Plus, Montreal still controls which pick the Coyotes will get. They will get the least valuable of the possible selections. This was a solid move, and put together over a couple of days after having their hand forced. That's the point.

[Moneyhands23]

Training camp can't cone soon enough friends!

I'm still drunk from last night...

[blankall]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

I'll write the post for you if that happened:

It's hilarious. Montreal had to deal with an offer sheet and they managed to engineer a deal to fill the gap in a couple days. Treliving? Still trying to find his ass in a phonebooth using both hands and having benefit of a roadmap. I hate "big game" hunters.

The Dvorak deal wasn't some feat. Dvorak had been on the block for quite some time. The price of a first was still known. Montreal might also miss the playoffs, which makes this a risky deal for them. Montreal would have missed the playoffs last year, in an awful north division, if Calgary hadn't blown all those Ottawa games.

I get that Montreal had an amazing playoff run, but people expecting their pick to be a guaranteed bottom 10 pick, are out to lunch.

The Flames need a #1 centre, which is much harder to aquire than a #2. The Flames could have made this exact deal for Dvorak. CP would have blown up, if we'd traded the first.

I think this was a bad move but Montreal. They were forced into it, because they couldn't retain Denault and Kotkainiemi signed an offer sheet, due to Montreal's previous bungling with their own offer sheet and cap mismanagement.

Montreal does not deserve praise for these moves. They may actually work out if Dvorak becomes great, but it's bungling at it's finest.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Dvorak deal wasn't some feat. Dvorak had been on the block for quite some time. The price of a first was still known. Montreal might also miss the playoffs, which makes this a risky deal for them. Montreal would have missed the playoffs last year, in an awful north division, if Calgary hadn't blown all those Ottawa games.

I get that Montreal had an amazing playoff run, but people expecting their pick to be a guaranteed bottom 10 pick, are out to lunch.

The Flames need a #1 centre, which is much harder to aquire than a #2. The Flames could have made this exact deal for Dvorak. CP would have blown up, if we'd traded the first.

I think this was a bad move but Montreal. They were forced into it, because they couldn't retain Denault and Kotkainiemi signed an offer sheet, due to Montreal's previous bungling with their own offer sheet and cap mismanagement.

Montreal does not deserve praise for these moves. They may actually work out if Dvorak becomes great, but it's bungling at it's finest.

If Dvorak progresses as is expected getting out of Arizona and playing with decent line mates, it’s a decent move. Time will tell, like with all things.


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[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I don't view this as trading a first and second for Dvorak. I see it as ultimately trading Kotkaniemi for Dvorak. The Habs found themselves with a gapping hole in their lineup and were able to put a deal together to resolve using resources available to them. The picks were for a future draft, so zero help for next season. Montreal had benefit of not trading their own assets, they were trading change found in the couch. They went out and did what it took to make their team better and did so in a a couple of days.

I also obviously don't view these picks as valuable as some of you do. These are likely going to be picks in be somewhere in the 20-30 and 50-60 range. Those are picks where a guy is likely going to take four to five years to play in the NHL and have any impact. That's a long time for a team that just went to the Stanley Cup final and believes they can complete right now. So those picks are less valuable that people are suggesting. Plus, Montreal still controls which pick the Coyotes will get. They will get the least valuable of the possible selections. This was a solid move, and put together over a couple of days after having their hand forced. That's the point.

I think you’re taking the opportunity to spin this into some sort of critique of Treliving to support your bias.

Dvorak’s name has been out there since at least the end of the season. The only reason Dvorak is a hab today is because Bergevin’s hand was forced. If this really was KK for Dvorak, then why isn’t KK a Coyote? This is not a case where the Habs had concocted some elaborate scheme to acquire assets to allow them to acquire Dvorak. Like many GM’s, including Treliving, I bet, Bergevin knew the price of Dvorak and it wasn’t until his hand was forced did he pay the price. Evidently something no other GM was willing to do.

This was a situation the habs were put into, not one they entered voluntarily. It was a steep price to pay and had the Flames paid it, I’m not sure it materially improves them. I don’t think he’s the caliber of player the Flames are going to trade significant future assets for.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

It’s kind of funny how many posts are happening given no update on either topic

Hilariously, some guy suggested breaking it in to two (more focused?)
threads

I learned to live with the fact that 1% of the posts in the Trade Speculation thread are actually breaking any speculation out there.

This one sucks extra because it started out with much promise and almost daily tidbits that were fun and exciting and has since devolved into the same thing.

Treliving leaving us out to dry on major roster changes coupled with the daily bumping of this thread is just a bacon burner now.

[Royle9]

I mean I think most of the frustrated people are in line with what the expectation was based on Brands end of season presser. He identified that the core needed a change and that big changes were suited to come in the off-season. Mind you he’s said this to some extent before and nothing happened so perhaps this has added fuel to the fire for those of us who were hoping real change was coming.

Now add in Johnnys contract expiring after this season with no real update, the possibility we end up losing him for very little (see Iginla) is resonating with some.

Add in the uncertainty on the blue line and backup goaltending situation, then the fact our biggest add is a middle six depth winger which doesn’t address our immediate need.

I think we’re all frustrated.

However let’s not confuse that with the notion that the flames are stupid because they didn’t make a move for Dvorak who is basically a Backlund light. That trade is a win for AZ and I’m glad we didn’t pay that price.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I mean I think most of the frustrated people are in line with what the expectation was based on Brands end of season presser. He identified that the core needed a change and that big changes were suited to come in the off-season. Mind you he’s said this to some extent before and nothing happened so perhaps this has added fuel to the fire for those of us who were hoping real change was coming.

Now add in Johnnys contract expiring after this season with no real update, the possibility we end up losing him for very little (see Iginla) is resonating with some.

Add in the uncertainty on the blue line and backup goaltending situation, then the fact our biggest add is a middle six depth winger which doesn’t address our immediate need.

I think we’re all frustrated.

However let’s not confuse that with the notion that the flames are stupid because they didn’t make a move for Dvorak who is basically a Backlund light. That trade is a win for AZ and I’m glad we didn’t pay that price.

I wouldn’t pay that price if I am a lottery team

I would if I am a contender. Remember Treliving paid more for a mid/bottom pairing dman

I think Montreal think they are contending lol

[djsFlames]

Dvorak was crazy overrated. We have a Dvorak here (Backs) and people are pumping MTLs tired for spending out the rear to get basically a steady C that doesn't impact the scoresheet often. At least Backs has those tears he goes on now and then where he actually can carry the team.

Montreal was bouncing around the idea of going after Monahan, and posters were saying they'd prefer Dvorak. Pretty funny.

I will say I'm intrigued as to what Monahan will do if 100% healthy. I don't think he's been 100% for quite some time. If these offseason fix ups let him shoot like he once was able to, it will be interesting.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Dvorak was crazy overrated. We have a Dvorak here (Backs) and people are pumping MTLs tired for spending out the rear to get basically a steady C that doesn't impact the scoresheet often. At least Backs has those tears he goes on now and then where he actually can carry the team.

Montreal was bouncing around the idea of going after Monahan, and posters were saying they'd prefer Dvorak. Pretty funny.

I will say I'm intrigued as to what Monahan will do if 100% healthy. I don't think he's been 100% for quite some time. If these offseason fix ups let him shoot like he once was able to, it will be interesting.

I am going to bump this post after the season is over and you are going to look foolish. Dvorak is a much better 200 foot player than Monahan. Dvorak is a better offensive player than Backlund.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Dvorak was crazy overrated. We have a Dvorak here (Backs) and people are pumping MTLs tired for spending out the rear to get basically a steady C that doesn't impact the scoresheet often. At least Backs has those tears he goes on now and then where he actually can carry the team.

Montreal was bouncing around the idea of going after Monahan, and posters were saying they'd prefer Dvorak. Pretty funny.

I will say I'm intrigued as to what Monahan will do if 100% healthy. I don't think he's been 100% for quite some time. If these offseason fix ups let him shoot like he once was able to, it will be interesting.

Currently, Dvorak has more trade value than Monny, as no one really knows what version if Monny exists going forward.

While that could change in a hurry when the season starts, we are not there yet.


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[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am going to bump this post after the season is over and you are going to look foolish. Dvorak is a much better 200 foot player than Monahan. Dvorak is a better offensive player than Backlund.

One day this will be true. Because he is 7 years younger. But it’s really not right now

[blankall]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If Dvorak progresses as is expected getting out of Arizona and playing with decent line mates, it’s a decent move. Time will tell, like with all things.


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I don't disagree. It's a gamble any team could have made though. Dvorak was getting top line minutes in Arizona and has a career high of 38 points.

Dvorak is also 25. Let's keep in mind people are discussing blowing up the Flames because our key forwards are 26-28 and haven't risen to that next level.

[bax]

I don’t think anyone expects Montreal to compete next year right? Even Bergevin?

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am going to bump this post after the season is over and you are going to look foolish. Dvorak is a much better 200 foot player than Monahan. Dvorak is a better offensive player than Backlund.

Pump the brakes a little here.

Dvoraks career point totals are 38, 37, 33 and 31 last year.

Backlund has had a 53, 47, 47, 45, 45 and then a 32 point season last year.

I understand hes only 25 so Dvorak could very well turn out to be better offensively but thats far from fact at this point.

[kukkudo]

We said that a year ago too and magically they made they cup finals.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Plus, Montreal still controls which pick the Coyotes will get. They will get the least valuable of the possible selections. This was a solid move, and put together over a couple of days after having their hand forced. That's the point.

Only if one the picks up end up top 10 otherwise Arizona gets the better pick.

[jesters91]

I agree if Calgary had traded a 1st & 2nd for Dvorak I wouldn’t be over the moon but for those who disagree Dvorak isn’t better offensively than Backlund they’re almost dead even over the last two seasons. Dvorak is 25 and projecting up. Backlund is a solid two way C but his trajectory isn’t on the same path.

Dvorak
54g 17g 14a 31pts
70g 18g 20a 38pts

Backlund
54g 9g 23a 32pts
70g 16g 29a 45pts