2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Honestly I’m more worried about Andersson and Valimaki having as big of roles as expected. I think as of right now they both slot too high for where they should. Really hope one has a career year and the other one is at least average.

I think both could surprise… Andersson had a bad year last year but he was progressing as a top four defenseman up until then. I think he bounces back and Valimaki takes a big step in development this year too. Sometimes opportunity is all it takes for young players to take that next step. Would not surprise me to see either or both of them establish themselves this season under Sutter.


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[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I think both could surprise… Andersson had a bad year last year but he was progressing as a top four defenseman up until then. I think he bounces back and Valimaki takes a big step in development this year too. Sometimes opportunity is all it takes for young players to take that next step. Would not surprise me to see either or both of them establish themselves this season under Sutter.


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This is probably one of the more interesting on-ice things to watch this coming season.

1. Mangiapane - I think he may establish himself as a high-end top-6 forward
2. Andersson, Valimaki and Hanifin establishing themselves as the top-3 defenceman on this team
3. Jacob Markstrom + Darryl Sutter may give us the best goalie performance we've seen since Miikka Kiprusoff + Darryl Sutter were last together at ice level.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

This is probably one of the more interesting on-ice things to watch this coming season.

1. Mangiapane - I think he may establish himself as a high-end top-6 forward
2. Andersson, Valimaki and Hanifin establishing themselves as the top-3 defenceman on this team
3. Jacob Markstrom + Darryl Sutter may give us the best goalie performance we've seen since Miikka Kiprusoff + Darryl Sutter were last together at ice level.

If all three of those things happen and I think this team has a chance at home ice in the playoffs for sure. Obviously the other top players need to play well also but these things would answer some of the perceived weaknesses this team has had for a few years (scoring, under-achieving defence, and goaltending).


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[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't know how you could say it isn't a shot.

People get tired of your posts because you post a lot and almost always they are negative. And not in a particularly constructive way.

So if you are going to post that way, expect to get a little bit of flack.

Or you could ask, when posting, if you are actually adding something of value. Or is it just more complaining.

Maybe a shot at Bobby Ryan. How would any of those guys be anything more than Leivo?

Sorry if you don’t like my posts but I don’t think I am as bad as some people trying to intimidate every posts that’s are not going the Flames way. If this board is for freedom of expression then I’ll continue to post. If I am wrong, feel free to correct me. I have been wrong a couple times before lol

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Re: Treliving

If this is what the roster looks like heading into camp after he publicly announced major changes then I can only summarize the offseason as a major failure.

If he can't get it done or has lost the ears on the other end of the phone line then he should be replaced.

I get the feeling Treliving being the bridesmaid on some of the trades that fell through has placed him at the kids table so to speak.

I'm not properly expressing my thoughts here I think.

One more try.

He tries, comes up short more often than not and has fizzled.
Perhaps a fresh voice on the phone at the Flames table can move things along.

I respect what Tree has tried to do over the years but you can't accept responsibility for the rosters failures, announce major changes are coming and end up doing nothing more than sign a FA or two and think that's acceptable performance.

Ppl around CP have been calling for his head for two years. This is supposed to be the offseason he rights the ship.

So far, hes used a few rolls of duct tape.

Lets assume the change is coming from moving out Sean Monahan.

He goes to market and finds out the whole league is wait and see on his injury and then career recovery.

A new voice on the phone is going to fix that?

Or maybe it's Gaudreau and everyone he's talking to is fixated on the last two seasons and completely disregard his 2018-19 season. Move him anyway? Does the fresh voice have the ability to change that market perception?

The Flames had off seasons from pretty much any player that they would look to be moving. If you're out in that market and that's what you're seeing you can do a garbage swap or you can take pennies on the dollar or you can stand down and wait it out.

Or ... you can move futures to land a star that can uptick the existing core.

But we're not really enamored with the Flames core as a group on CP, why do you think Treliving would be able to convince GMs around the league otherwise? Why would a fresh voice on the phone have better luck?

[Toonage]

Sometimes a fresh voice brings new ideas or strategies to the table. Ask Jack Eichel about his agent.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Lets assume the change is coming from moving out Sean Monahan.

He goes to market and finds out the whole league is wait and see on his injury and then career recovery.

A new voice on the phone is going to fix that?

Or maybe it's Gaudreau and everyone he's talking to is fixated on the last two seasons and completely disregard his 2018-19 season. Move him anyway? Does the fresh voice have the ability to change that market perception?

The Flames had off seasons from pretty much any player that they would look to be moving. If you're out in that market and that's what you're seeing you can do a garbage swap or you can take pennies on the dollar or you can stand down and wait it out.

Or ... you can move futures to land a star that can uptick the existing core.

But we're not really enamored with the Flames core as a group on CP, why do you think Treliving would be able to convince GMs around the league otherwise? Why would a fresh voice on the phone have better luck?

IMO, most logical and best post of the thread.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Lets assume the change is coming from moving out Sean Monahan.

He goes to market and finds out the whole league is wait and see on his injury and then career recovery.

A new voice on the phone is going to fix that?

Or maybe it's Gaudreau and everyone he's talking to is fixated on the last two seasons and completely disregard his 2018-19 season. Move him anyway? Does the fresh voice have the ability to change that market perception?

The Flames had off seasons from pretty much any player that they would look to be moving. If you're out in that market and that's what you're seeing you can do a garbage swap or you can take pennies on the dollar or you can stand down and wait it out.

Or ... you can move futures to land a star that can uptick the existing core.

But we're not really enamored with the Flames core as a group on CP, why do you think Treliving would be able to convince GMs around the league otherwise? Why would a fresh voice on the phone have better luck?

And all you just said is the problem I described as a failure. I'm not necessarily on the fire treliving train but it's hard to defend the inaction on his proclamations.

Doesn't matter what player values are right now because in a roundabout way the Flames set those values themselves through the team build and on ice failures from a million different ways from bad coaching hires poor roster decisions, bad signings, spending draft capital on over rated players, bail out trades (Neal/Lucic), timing, bad team meetings and any other thing that has occurred the last two or three years.

There's still time to make his lofty changes I'm just saying from an outside perspective with the only real tangible knowledge available is that he has failed his own expectations and that should be enough for a change at the GM position. So far.

And with some pretty substantial player contracts coming up and a tight cap space rope to walk, how high is confidence right now that he doesn't fail these things?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So you're assumption is the following;

- the two more positive radio/tv guys are wrong
- the usually negative radio guy is right
- Treliving has just taken the summer off and isn't doing anything

Seems legit!

Honestly even Treliving hating fans can't honestly think that a lack of major roster change is due to laziness can they?

I don't think it's a case of laziness. I think he is a little trigger shy lately(the last season). Maybe it's because his job is on the line? I have no idea. I honestly refuse to believe that there are only bad deals to be found. Yet somehow other GMs manage to find and make deals to improve their teams. Granted some GMs seem to be setting their franchises back.

The problem that I have is that the Flames look like the classic case of a team in need of a change in direction. Instead, all we've been getting is status quo. Which seems to be backing the Flames into a corner, for a last kick at the can with Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Backlund as your core forwards (core forwards over the last 5 seasons). Then you either have to Gaudreau and Tkachuk a lot more or lose them for a lesser return.

I hope that Sutter can get the most out of this team. That said, we've been hearing for half a season that something is wrong in the room. We were also seeing a lot of uninspired hockey. We got a lot of slow starts, and didn't know what team we were going to get every night. We still had a mentally fragile team after getting scored on. Not to mention that we couldn't buy a goal when trailing in the third. I grant you things seemed to be improving under Sutter. That said, I don't know how many of the Flames' problems are going to be fixed by better goaltending, and a better coach.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Sometimes a fresh voice brings new ideas or strategies to the table. Ask Jack Eichel about his agent.

A change in representation can alter a stalemate in a negotiation.

It's very unlikely to change the valuation of a Sean Monahan to competing GMs.

[Strange Brew]

At some point you look at the GM's results and evaluate him based on that, and that alone. We're headed into what, season 8 now? At what point can we look at the team on the ice and simply say this is the team Treliving put out there and evaluate his performance accordingly?

No one ever said the job was easy. But there's no shortage of people looking for the opportunity either.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

At some point you look at the GM's results and evaluate him based on that, and that alone. We're headed into what, season 8 now? At what point can we look at the team on the ice and simply say this is the team Treliving put out there and evaluate his performance accordingly?

No one ever said the job was easy. But there's no shortage of people looking for the opportunity either.

Don't have a problem with that.

He bet on Monahan and Gaudreau and lost. I'm not on that wave, but I get it completely.

I was responding to two posters that basically suggested he's doing nothing, which to me is plain silly.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Don't have a problem with that.

He bet on Monahan and Gaudreau and lost. I'm not on that wave, but I get it completely.

I was responding to two posters that basically suggested he's doing nothing, which to me is plain silly.

It's not like there was, at the time, a reasonable alternative to not betting on Johnny and Monny.

In retrospect, trading Johnny and Monny are their big years was the way to go. But who would have thought that was smart at the time?

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It's not like there was, at the time, a reasonable alternative to not betting on Johnny and Monny.

In retrospect, trading Johnny and Monny are their big years was the way to go. But who would have thought that was smart at the time?

There were plenty of people who wanted changes to the core after they completely crapped the bed against Colorado. The way in which they lost that series did not sit well, combined with the team’s lacklustre play down the stretch despite finishing 2nd overall.

To say that nobody could have seen this coming is total revisionist history. Plenty did and were dismissed as being Debbie Downers.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

There were plenty of people who wanted changes to the core after they completely crapped the bed against Colorado. The way in which they lost that series did not sit well, combined with the team’s lacklustre play down the stretch despite finishing 2nd overall.

To say that nobody could have seen this coming is total revisionist history. Plenty did and were dismissed as being Debbie Downers.

Yeah I'm sure it wasn't 100% on the side of not making changes for sure.

But certain posters predict pretty much 100% of all things on the negative side, you don't have to be Nostradamus to get one right once in a while!

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But certain posters predict pretty much 100% of all things on the negative side, you don't have to be Nostradamus to get one right once in a while!

a broken clock is correct twice a day!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It's not like there was, at the time, a reasonable alternative to not betting on Johnny and Monny.

In retrospect, trading Johnny and Monny are their big years was the way to go. But who would have thought that was smart at the time?

Yeah especially since it looked like the team was filling out to help them.

They had Hamilton on the roster, Fox, Andersson, Valimaki and Kylington in the pipeline.

Up front they needed to supplement and build out the forward group so he moved Hamilton and Fox (both of whom wanted out) for Lindholm and Hanifin, drafted Tkachuk and had some development wins in Mangiapane and hopefully Dube.

But Monahan gets hurt, the league to some degree figures Gaudreau out, and Bennett continues to stagnate.

Not hard to see an alternate reality with a pretty well built hockey club.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

There were plenty of people who wanted changes to the core after they completely crapped the bed against Colorado. The way in which they lost that series did not sit well, combined with the team’s lacklustre play down the stretch despite finishing 2nd overall.

To say that nobody could have seen this coming is total revisionist history. Plenty did and were dismissed as being Debbie Downers.

Are you suggesting posters were advocating trading Johnny and Monny?

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Are you suggesting posters were advocating trading Johnny and Monny?

Yes. The writing was on the wall for that club.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Yes. The writing was on the wall for that club.

Please.

They are hardly the first, nor the last, team to get spanked in the first round in the playoffs and not immediately blow it up. There was a lot of potential with that team and moving core pieces out after the second best season in team history would have been a bold move. I would have to think Treliving would have had a hard time selling that to ownership. Even if he wanted to, I doubt he would have had the support to do so.

Let’s also not pretend that the Peters situation followed soon by a global pandemic hasn’t had an affect on the team and the league in many ways. Neither of those things can be laid at the feet of Treliving.