2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

He’s been on the market for over a year now. Considering how rarely #1/2 Cs become available, if the rest of the league thought as highly of him as you do, another GM would have made a decent offer to the Treliving by now.

Monahan is good at sniping and average to poor at all the other things expected of an NHL centre. There was in interview with a director of player of personal for another team a year or so ago where he said Monahan is an extremely difficult player to evaluate because he doesn’t do most of the things NHL centres are expected to do - gaining entry, distributing the puck, back-checking, supporting the D down low.

Pre-swoon Monahan had less value than fans around here think because he was one-dimensional. Now that he isn’t even potting goals, he’s worth even less. He’s basically Mike Hoffman with health question marks.

It's been rumored he's been on the market for a few years now and the reason he's not been moved is exactly how that director of player personnel put it. I just don't think he's valued around the league as much as we think he is as the rest of the league knows what he brings and it's not all that is expected of a top center. I'm sure there are plenty of teams that would gladly trade for him but at their price which would probably be very underwhelming to fans here and Treliving which is why he's still a Flame.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

He’s been on the market for over a year now. Considering how rarely #1/2 Cs become available, if the rest of the league thought as highly of him as you do, another GM would have made a decent offer to Treliving by now.

Monahan is good at sniping and average to poor at all the other things expected of an NHL centre. There was in interview with a director of player of personal for another team a year or so ago where he said Monahan is an extremely difficult player to evaluate because he doesn’t do most of the things NHL centres are expected to do - gaining entry, distributing the puck, back-checking, supporting the D down low.

Pre-swoon Monahan had less value than fans around here think because he was one-dimensional. Now that he isn’t even potting goals, he’s worth even less. He’s basically Mike Hoffman with health question marks.

Well, you failed to mention that he's above average on draws, and he's been on what was one of hockey's most productive lines when healthy, so I don't think he's that bad at distributing the puck.

Comparing him with Hoffman is laughable. Even injured, he was a better player than Hoffman. And I am far less worried about random unrelated injuries than I would be about a recurring injury. Hoffman had a career high 70 points, had only 36 points last season (playing healthy), and will turn 33 this season. And he's not a centre.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Hertl

323 points in 503 games and 27...amazing player big fish on the market if only we had the assets!

Monahan
439 points in 591 games and 26...yeah we couldn't give the guy away

CP is an embarrassment sometimes

Flames should have kept Jagr too, 1888 career points!!

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Flames should have kept Jagr too, 1888 career points!!

If you were choosing between two 45 year olds then yes, you'd probably choose the one that put up more career points - or at least the stat is relevant. I don't know why comparing a 45 year old future HOF and a 26 year old in career points would have any relevance.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by VilleN

If you were choosing between two 45 year olds then yes, you'd probably choose the one that put up more career points - or at least the stat is relevant. I don't know why comparing a 45 year old future HOF and a 26 year old in career points would have any relevance.

Looking at career points in isolation is folly, that's the point.

Recent form over 2.5 years and injuries cannot be ommited from Monahan's value.
Suggesting his career points give him more value around the league than Hertl is ridiculous.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Looking at career points in isolation is folly, that's the point.

Recent form over 2.5 years and injuries cannot be ommited from Monahan's value.
Suggesting his career points give him more value around the league than Hertl is ridiculous.

Suggesting that it wouldn’t is just silly. How many one dimensional goal scorers go at astronomical rates ? Everyone was all about Hoffman two years ago, my opinion was forget it.
If monohan was on the market he’s looking at a first, high end prospect, or multiple second or third rounders. Would you expect to pay less for Hertl?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Hertl

323 points in 503 games and 27...amazing player big fish on the market if only we had the assets!

Monahan
439 points in 591 games and 26...yeah we couldn't give the guy away

CP is an embarrassment sometimes

I love how you keep doing those flybys. You keep going back to points as an argument. I already asked you this before but who do you rather have

Draisaitl who is 25 with 478GP and 506P or
Barkov who is 25 with 529GP and 465P?


Both are good players but the points don't show anything about defensive game, and the generation of chances 5 on 5.

You can be on a team with a great power-play, or play with a great offensive talent to get a boost. Cheechoo scored 56 goals and 93 points playing with Thornton for a season. He followed his 93 point season with 69, 37, and 29 points respectively with the Sharks. The latter two were in seasons where he missed games due to injures. Then he was traded to Ottawa, he put up 20 points and was in the AHL in that same year. Now I am not saying that is the trajectory of Monahan's career, but teams are definitely weary when they see a down trend in production, and effectiveness on the ice.

[Knightslayer]

Can someone please explain why Hertl would be available as a 27 year old center if he was such a great 2 way center?

I've watched him play a lot and he reminds me of Monahan. Another player who leaves you wanting more. Doesn't mean he is a terrible player but he is average to bad defensively and a soft center who has has numerous inconsistent spells in his career.

[bdubbs]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Can someone please explain why Hertl would be available as a 27 year old center if he was such a great 2 way center?

I've watched him play a lot and he reminds me of Monahan. Another player who leaves you wanting more. Doesn't mean he is a terrible player but he is average to bad defensively and a soft center who has has numerous inconsistent spells in his career.

There was a post earlier on about Hertl possibly not wanting to stay in San Jose if Kane is still there. That's where his name came up first.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Can someone please explain why Hertl would be available as a 27 year old center if he was such a great 2 way center?

I've watched him play a lot and he reminds me of Monahan. Another player who leaves you wanting more. Doesn't mean he is a terrible player but he is average to bad defensively and a soft center who has has numerous inconsistent spells in his career.

He is a UFA in a year. He also wasn’t a fan of how the Kane situation was handled. In addition, I don’t see SJS competing for anything in the near future.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Can someone please explain why Hertl would be available as a 27 year old center if he was such a great 2 way center?

I've watched him play a lot and he reminds me of Monahan. Another player who leaves you wanting more. Doesn't mean he is a terrible player but he is average to bad defensively and a soft center who has has numerous inconsistent spells in his career.

Can you provide some actual reasoning or evidence as to why he is bad defensively other than it’s just your opinion? Because his profile actually shows the opposite. If anything he is a lot more similar to Lindholm than Monahan.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Flames should have kept Jagr too, 1888 career points!!

Well, I mean one's 26, and the other is 45. But hey, why let little details like that get in the way of a good burn right?

[Geeoff]

If I'm San Jose, I'm looking at the writing on the wall and trading Hertl for picks and prospects. That team is trash and in salary cap hell. Maybe in the worst spot of any team in the league, other than Buffalo

[1qqaaz]

Based on the WAR%, Hertl is a lot better than Monahan. Especially in recent years.

Many of Monahan's points he got early. But he's still a big center and would have good trade value, even after a couple of down seasons. Plus, he has more term remaining on his contract.

At the end of the day, if Hertl is basically a pending UFA, it makes next to no sense for the Flames to acquire him.
There are other more relevant players to talk about.
Plus, as other have stated, San Jose should be more interested in picks and prospects. The Flames should not be trading away assets like that for rentals.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Montreal go after Hertl. They’re not a good team, but the impatience of Canadian teams will kick in, and the Sharks could force them to give them Montreal’s unprotected 1st… which could be a huge wildcard in a deal.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Flames should have kept Jagr too, 1888 career points!!

The two guys I mentioned are within a year of each other with Monahan being younger so

[dino7c]

Just a reminder the quote was

"I don’t know who would want Monahan"

Yeah I am going to call that out and not apologize. He may not fetch a massive return like two years ago but every team in the NHL would want him

[Lanny_McDonald]

Does plan B present itself right now? Monahan for Hertl as the major pieces. Still need a RW, but if maybe the Sharks kick in Leblanc and the Flames kick in a decent prospect and a pick, it might work out.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Just a reminder the quote was

"I don’t know who would want Monahan"

Yeah I am going to call that out and not apologize. He may not fetch a massive return like two years ago but every team in the NHL would want him

I personally interpret that quote as "I don't know who would want to give the Flames the package even close to Monahan's value to the Flames". That's my interpretation though.



My beef is with statements like "CP can be such an embarrassment". You essentially position yourself as the hockey expert, and everyone that disagrees is an embarrassment. You also only address responses with exaggerations, trying to poke holes in other people's argument instead of trying to understand where they are coming from.

[Weitz]

Seems likely that SJ would trade Hertl instead of getting rid of Kane.