History of NHL Offer Sheets

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It was very clear from the league reaction that (a) he didn’t check and (b) had he checked they would have taken the same position they did afterwards. Are you telling me if you seek a preapproval from CRA for a tax arrangement and they say “no that doesn’t work” you just roll the dice because you believe otherwise? Not to mention no lawyer has ever supported Feaster on this (unless you count Feaster himself and I don’t).

I can’t grab the MOU and CBA right now, but they changed the MOU wording of something akin to “a team’s protected list” to the CBA wording of similar to “that team’s protected list”.

Feaster’s interpretation was technically correct, as O’Reilly was on a team’s protected list.

No. If I were to ask for a ruling and receive it, I would not go contrary to it.
I also don’t believe Feaster checked as, again, his reading was correct, albeit not that which was intended, hence the change.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by getbak

Since it's all pointless speculation at this point, I'll stand by my original assumption about the O'Reilly offer -- It was all a ruse where the Avs and O'Reilly had hit a wall in their negotiations and the relationship had soured to the point where the player wasn't willing to budge, so Sherman secretly asked Feaster to give the offer sheet within parameters that the Avs were willing to match.

Remember, the Flames and Avs were playing in Denver that night and the Avs announced they were going to match almost instantly (I think it was before that night's game had even started).

In exchange for doing him the favour, Sherman agreed to help out Feaster at some future point. Unfortunately, Sherman got fired before he could pay up. Or maybe, the handshake deal rolled over to Feaster and Sherman's replacements and that's why the Avs inexplicably gave up a 2nd round pick for Berra.

Another reason why Feaster was willing to play along is the Flames and Avs were both near the bottom of the Western Conference standings at the time, so helping get O'Reilly signed and playing in Colorado would hopefully make the Avs better enough that they wouldn't have a chance to get MacKinnon (oops!).

That's why Feaster wasn't worried about the whole waiver thing or losing the compensation, he knew the Avs were never not going to match the offer. Everything he said afterward was just CYA to avoid any blow-back from the PA for conspiring with another GM in that way.

Seems plausible. That Berra return was ridiculously high in a vacuum. Feaster also needed some good PR at the time to hold onto his job.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

I can’t grab the MOU and CBA right now, but they changed the MOU wording of something akin to “a team’s protected list” to the CBA wording of similar to “that team’s protected list”.

Feaster’s interpretation was technically correct, as O’Reilly was on a team’s protected list.

No. If I were to ask for a ruling and receive it, I would not go contrary to it.
I also don’t believe Feaster checked as, again, his reading was correct, albeit not that which was intended, hence the change.

The league begged to differ on the interpretation, as did all the journalists at the time. Feaster was relying on an after-the-fact argument that they essentially inherited the Av’s protected status for ROR. The league said no.

IMO Feaster didn’t even look at an “interpretation” until after they were called on it. And at the very highest he was choosing to roll the dice on a legal fight with the league which he would have lost at first instance, since the league is the first arbiter.

BTW, Feaster claimed the agent was fully aware as well and agreed with him, but it seems like he lied about that:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...algary-flames/

[getbak]

I love that the Hurricanes have done exactly 2 offer sheets in their history and both were done out of spite.

The Fedorov offer sheet was an extension of the feud between Karmanos and Illitch that had dated back to Detroit minor hockey in the 1970s.

Now, we have the Kotkaniemi offer sheet as revenge against the Habs.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The league begged to differ on the interpretation, as did all the journalists at the time. Feaster was relying on an after-the-fact argument that they essentially inherited the Av’s protected status for ROR. The league said no.

IMO Feaster didn’t even look at an “interpretation” until after they were called on it. And at the very highest he was choosing to roll the dice on a legal fight with the league which he would have lost at first instance, since the league is the first arbiter.

BTW, Feaster claimed the agent was fully aware as well and agreed with him, but it seems like he lied about that:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...algary-flames/

The league begged to differ? I didn’t think the league had a chance to weigh in as the Avs matched. Also, weren’t they operating under a MOU at the time, with the CBA yet to be finalized?

Anyways, who cares, I guess. As several posters have said, it doesn’t matter now

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The league begged to differ? I didn’t think the league had a chance to weigh in as the Avs matched. Also, weren’t they operating under a MOU at the time, with the CBA yet to be finalized?

Anyways, who cares, I guess. As several posters have said, it doesn’t matter now

The league commented afterwards and said, yeah, waivers would have been required. Feaster admitted this when he said:

"Our interpretation of the Article 13 transition rules governing restricted free agents, and the applicability of Article 13.23 under the new Collective Bargaining Agreement to such RFA's was, and continues to be, different than the NHL's current interpretation as articulated to us this morning. Moreover, throughout our discussions, the player's representative [Patrick Morris] shared our interpretation and position with respect to the non-applicability of Article 13.23.”

Again, Morris denied the last statement as well.

[GioforPM]

Also, the very next sentence in the CBA's MOU works entirely against Feaster’s take:

"For further clarity, if Club A trades such a Player to Club B and Club B signs the Player to an SPC,
such Player will be exempt from the application of CBA 13.23."

If Feaster was right, and any team could sign a player onto their team's Reserve/RFA list mid-season without them having to clear waivers (and not just the existing rights holder), why include this specific clause about trades? This clause means that if the player could only be signed by the team who holds his rights the Avs could trade O'Reilly and have his new team sign him without that waiver requirement, since he would now be on his new team's Reserve/RFA list. The fact that this provision references trades but NOT offer sheets leads to the conclusion that that offer sheets were not within the exception to the standard waiver rules in the MOU.

[1qqaaz]

I don't really give credit or criticism to the GMs based on things that never really materialized. I don't criticize Feaster for signing an offer sheet (it was always going to be matched) or offering a ton to Brad Richards (there's a good chance he would never sign with Calgary). I don't give him credit for almost drafting Kucherov. I don't give Treliving credit for almost acquiring Kadri. I don't criticize him for potentially overpaying for Zucker.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I don't really give credit or criticism to the GMs based on things that never really materialized. I don't criticize Feaster for signing an offer sheet (it was always going to be matched) or offering a ton to Brad Richards (there's a good chance he would never sign with Calgary). I don't give him credit for almost drafting Kucherov. I don't give Treliving credit for almost acquiring Kadri. I don't criticize him for potentially overpaying for Zucker.

Well, some are different than others, no? Both because of why they failed (under control or not) and what would have happened if they succeeded.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by getbak

Since it's all pointless speculation at this point, I'll stand by my original assumption about the O'Reilly offer -- It was all a ruse where the Avs and O'Reilly had hit a wall in their negotiations and the relationship had soured to the point where the player wasn't willing to budge, so Sherman secretly asked Feaster to give the offer sheet within parameters that the Avs were willing to match.

Remember, the Flames and Avs were playing in Denver that night and the Avs announced they were going to match almost instantly (I think it was before that night's game had even started).




In exchange for doing him the favour, Sherman agreed to help out Feaster at some future point. Unfortunately, Sherman got fired before he could pay up. Or maybe, the handshake deal rolled over to Feaster and Sherman's replacements and that's why the Avs inexplicably gave up a 2nd round pick for Berra.

Another reason why Feaster was willing to play along is the Flames and Avs were both near the bottom of the Western Conference standings at the time, so helping get O'Reilly signed and playing in Colorado would hopefully make the Avs better enough that they wouldn't have a chance to get MacKinnon (oops!).


That's why Feaster wasn't worried about the whole waiver thing or losing the compensation, he knew the Avs were never not going to match the offer. Everything he said afterward was just CYA to avoid any blow-back from the PA for conspiring with another GM in that way.

The fact they matched so quickly did suggest at least that they weren't aware of the waivers factor. You would think they would have made Feaster pay them something to match or make him sweat for a week.

[genetic_phreek]

Seeing this thread and also the Jesperi Kotkaniemi offer sheet made me think, if Tre was to have the guts, who would you want to get offered sheet? Seems a couple teams could get screwed right now since they are tight against the cap.

$2,055,365 - $4,110,732
1 Second Round Pick

$4,110,733 - $6,166,096
1 First Round Pick
1 Third Round Pick

$6,166,097 - $8,221,463
1 First Round Pick
1 Second Round Pick
1 Third Round Pick

$8,221,464 - $10,276,829
2 First Round Picks
1 Second Round Pick
1 Third Round Pick


Robert Thomas STL
Nolan Patrick VGK
Kailer Yamamoto EDM
Elias Petterson VAN

[cam_wmh]

Man the Bkues were in the midst a lot there. Was that ol Jon Davidson’s reign?

Lotta sh*thousery.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Man the Bkues were in the midst a lot there. Was that ol Jon Davidson’s reign?

Lotta sh*thousery.

https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/08/21/o...sheet-history/

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Man the Bkues were in the midst a lot there. Was that ol Jon Davidson’s reign?

Lotta sh*thousery.

Davidson joined the Blues in 2006, so was only involved in the Backes/Bernier offer sheets

most of the offers from the Blues took place under Ron Caron

[getbak]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Man the Blues were in the midst a lot there. Was that ol Jon Davidson’s reign?

Lotta sh*thousery.

Most of those were when Ron Caron was running things.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Seeing this thread and also the Jesperi Kotkaniemi offer sheet made me think, if Tre was to have the guts, who would you want to get offered sheet? Seems a couple teams could get screwed right now since they are tight against the cap.

$2,055,365 - $4,110,732
1 Second Round Pick

$4,110,733 - $6,166,096
1 First Round Pick
1 Third Round Pick

$6,166,097 - $8,221,463
1 First Round Pick
1 Second Round Pick
1 Third Round Pick

$8,221,464 - $10,276,829
2 First Round Picks
1 Second Round Pick
1 Third Round Pick


Robert Thomas STL
Nolan Patrick VGK
Kailer Yamamoto EDM
Elias Petterson VAN

Much rather make a crazy $6M offer to Robert Thomas than JK. The Blues think Thomas has Mika Zibanejad upside

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by getbak

Most of those were when Ron Caron was running things.

He was the best

I remember watching Blues highlights as a kid. They would always show Ron Caron going beserk in the suites/boxes

Ha ha

[getbak]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The fact they matched so quickly did suggest at least that they weren't aware of the waivers factor. You would think they would have made Feaster pay them something to match or make him sweat for a week.

Since it was a mid-season signing, it was to the Avs' benefit to match ASAP so they could get him in the lineup. In fact, he was in the lineup for their next game, three days later.


I think it's obvious that they didn't understand the waivers issue because if they had, they would have been shouting it from the rooftops. The offer sheet is the only leverage the player has in that situation (other than sitting out the whole season and not getting paid), so if the Avs knew it was off the table, they would have wanted everyone to know it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

He was the best

I remember watching Blues highlights as a kid. They would always show Ron Caron going beserk in the suites/boxes

Ha ha

Not to mention the patsy of the two biggest Flame's cup winning transactions.

February 1, 1986

Terry Johnson
Joe Mullen
Rik Wilson

Eddy Beers
Charles Bourgeois
Gino Cavallini

September 6, 1988

Steve Bozek
Michael Dark
Doug Gilmour
Mark Hunter

Mike Bullard
Tim Corkery
Craig Coxe

At least Fletcher gave him Hull in that window to appease the Hockey Gods

[blankall]

Lol. The St. Louis Blues were a real bag of D***s in the early 90s.