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08-29-2021, 09:26 PM
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#22
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Yeesh, that is depressing. A lot of those guys were highly ranked or looked like they were on the right track at some point, just to fall off. Krahn is somewhat understandable due to his injury problems.
And yeah, McElhinney has had a respectable career.
Irving was probably the biggest disappointment. He seemed to have a high opinion of himself and the Flames dropped him.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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08-29-2021, 10:09 PM
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#24
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Nanaimo
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Craig Anderson has had a fairly good career.
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08-29-2021, 10:14 PM
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#25
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Nanaimo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
Yeesh, that is depressing. A lot of those guys were highly ranked or looked like they were on the right track at some point, just to fall off. Krahn is somewhat understandable due to his injury problems.
And yeah, McElhinney has had a respectable career.
Irving was probably the biggest disappointment. He seemed to have a high opinion of himself and the Flames dropped him.
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Irving wasn't ever really given fair shot. Team was still playing kipper for 70 games even tho his play was 9n the downturn. They played Karlsson more even tho he had better numbers.
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08-30-2021, 01:25 AM
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#26
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainYooh
It would be really interesting to see other teams' lists for comparison. How bad do we really do compared to others?
So, Reggie, when you have even more time to spare, perhaps?  |
You can check every team here: https://records.nhl.com/draft/draft-...m=BOS&year=all (this link goes to Boston's list, which I found especially awful).
Select the team and "G" position from the drop downs and make sure all the other ones are "All". If you click on the Year column after it shows the results, it will show them sorted by year.
I find it funny that the Bruins have drafted 2 Stanley Cup winning goalies... and they both beat the Bruins to win the Cup.
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Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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08-30-2021, 02:01 AM
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#27
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
BSD was a solid 1B here.
Why would him doing the same thing in Nashville suggest anything?
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It would suggest that the Flames gave up on him too soon if he goes and does well some where else. Which is part of the problem of identifying, developing and keeping talent when it comes to goalies. I'm assuming they didn't feel he was a reliable 1b otherwise they would have kept him wouldn't they? I think he is one personally.
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08-30-2021, 08:00 AM
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#28
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Franchise Player
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They didn’t give up on him
He was a pending unrestricted free agent who they moved to get a return instead of losing for nothing
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08-30-2021, 08:33 AM
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#29
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: I don't belong here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbylouie
I bit, and did it for Edmonton since I assume that's who everybody would be curious about next.
I tried to keep the format similar to the original, but I added a column for total games played/games played with team that drafted the player
(and also learned that this format doesn't easily allow for columns)
==================================
Edmonton Oilers All-Time Drafted Goalies
First Round
Grant Fuhr (1981) 8th Overall .......... 868 NHL Games (423 with Edmonton)
Devan Dubnyk (2004) 14th Overall ........ 542 NHL Games (171 with Edmonton)
Second Round
Daryl Reaugh (1984) 42nd Overall ........ 27 NHL Games (7 with Edmonton)
Andrew Verner (1991) 34th Overall
Jeff Deslauriers (2002) 31st Overall ........ 62 NHL Games (58 with Edmonton)
Olivier Rodrigue (2018) 62nd Overall
Third Round
Adam Hauser (1999) 81st Overall ........ 1 NHL Game (0 with Edmonton)
Samu Perhonen (2011) 62nd Overall
Stuart Skinner (2017) 78th Overall
Ilya Konovalov (2019) 85th Overall
Fourth Round
Mike Minard (1995) 83rd Overall ........ 1 NHL Game (1 with Edmonton)
Kristian Antila (1998) 113th Overall
Keven Bouchard (2014) 183rd Overall
Fifth Round
Greg Louder (1990) 101st Overall
Joaquin Gage (1992) 109th Overall ........ 23 NHL Games (23 with Edmonton)
Jussi Markkanen (2001) 133rd Overall ........ 128 NHL Games (102 with Edmonton)
Glenn Fisher (2002) 148th Overall
Bryan Pitton (2006) 133rd Overall
Olivier Roy (2009) 133rd Overall
Tyler Bunz (2010) 121st Overall ........ 1 NHL Game (1 with Edmonton)
Dylan Wells (2016) 123rd Overall
Sixth Round
Brian Tessler (1985) 125th Overall
Seventh Round
Andy Moog (1980) 132nd Overall ........ 713 NHL Games (235 with Edmonton)
Mike Power (1990) 143rd Overall
Chris Wickenheiser (1994) 179th Overall
Mike Morrison (1998) 186th Overall ........ 29 NHL Games (21 with Edmonton)
Frans Tuohimaa (2011) 181st Overall
Miroslav Svoboda (2015) 208th Overall
Eighth Round
Rob Polman-Tuin (1980) 153rd Overall
Ninth Round
Ian Wood (1982) 188th Overall
Dave Roach (1983) 180th Overall
Mike Greenlay (1986) 189th Overall ........ 2 NHL Games (2 with Edmonton)
Gavin Armstrong (1987) 189th Overall
Tom Cole (1988) 187th Overall
Jeremy Joblonski (1994) 214th Overall
John Hultberg (1996) 221st Overall
Alexander Fomitchev (1997) 231st Overall
Bjorn Bjurling (2004) 274th Overall
Eleventh Round
Chris Smith (1982) 230th Overall
Evgeny Belosheikin (1991) 232nd Overall
Twelfth Round
John Haley (1985) 251st Overall
------------------------------------------------------------------
No Goalie Chosen by Edmonton since 2010 has played in an NHL game.
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Stuart Skinner played one game for Edmonton. Even though he got the win the other stats are very no good.
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08-30-2021, 08:35 AM
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#30
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psytic
Kind of points to the issue of there being a development problem. The only goalies that have actually turned out half way decent outside of Vernon have done it in another system like McElhinney, Brossoit, Anderson. I dont think its bad picks considering some of the hype and Junior stats around some of the guys. It really seems that once they get in the Flames system its down hill. If Wolf ends up ruined and Big Save Dave becomes a solid 1b in Nash. I think you have to call a spade a spade.
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If you want to talk about development this is your list ...
Mason McDonald (2014) 34th Overall
Tyler Parsons (2016) 54th Overall
Daniil Chechelev (2020) 96th Overall
Dustin Wolf (2019) 214th Overall
Arseni Sergeev (2021) 205th Overall
and I guess add in Rittich. Jon Gillies they developed but didn't select.
Those are the players selected or acquired by the current regime. No point in hanging poor goalie development in Al Coates or Cliff Fletcher's time on the current management group.
If Wolf plays I'm guessing they're probably batting about average league wide for goaltenders turning out as there are no first round picks, and only two selected before the third round.
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08-30-2021, 09:12 AM
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#31
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1qqaaz
Not just Demko. Nedeljkovic, Vanecek, Merzlikins, and Shesterkin were all available.
Some will say "but McDonald was ranked highly and the Flames took him where he was supposed to go." But just looking at all of their pre-draft stats, taking McDonald ahead of them was always going to be a stupid move. That's part of why most of us hated the pick the moment it was made.
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If I recall, the scouting team said they liked McDonald over Demko after seeing them at the U18. It does seem like this is a tournament the Flames amateur scouts rely on a lot as they’ve drafted a lot of players who havd had good showings there. I think Pelletier and Zary were actually linemates in Pelletiers draft year.
I remember Klimchuk also having a good tournament.
The Flames scouts might be putting too much into one tournament. Maybe for forwards they can but they shouldn’t be rating goalies based on a small sample size.
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Calgary Flames, PLEASE GO TO THE NET! AND SHOOT THE PUCK! GENERATING OFFENSE IS NOT DIFFICULT! SKATE HARD, SHOOT HARD, CRASH THE NET HARD!
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08-30-2021, 09:20 AM
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#32
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First Line Centre
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Maybe that is why the organization has Sigalet and his group doing a lot of the goalie scouting and being part of goalie decision making now. It is hard enough for scouts to determine which players are going to turn out and having them responsible for something so specialized as goaltending is bound to be fraught with peril.
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'Skank' Marden: I play hockey and I fornicate, 'cause those are the two most fun things to do in cold weather. - Mystery Alaska
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08-30-2021, 10:08 AM
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#33
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1qqaaz
Not just Demko. Nedeljkovic, Vanecek, Merzlikins, and Shesterkin were all available.
Some will say "but McDonald was ranked highly and the Flames took him where he was supposed to go." But just looking at all of their pre-draft stats, taking McDonald ahead of them was always going to be a stupid move. That's part of why most of us hated the pick the moment it was made.
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This one doesn’t keep my up at night at all.
McDonald and Demko were neck and neck most of the year, maybe a slight edge to Demko. You can’t just look at stats when evaluating goalies, plenty of goalies with bad stats have gone on to become great NHL goalies.
Demko was coming off hip surgery so there was cause for mobility concerns there where we McDonald was perfectly healthy.
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08-30-2021, 10:14 AM
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#34
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
If you want to talk about development this is your list ...
Mason McDonald (2014) 34th Overall
Tyler Parsons (2016) 54th Overall
Daniil Chechelev (2020) 96th Overall
Dustin Wolf (2019) 214th Overall
Arseni Sergeev (2021) 205th Overall
and I guess add in Rittich. Jon Gillies they developed but didn't select.
Those are the players selected or acquired by the current regime. No point in hanging poor goalie development in Al Coates or Cliff Fletcher's time on the current management group.
If Wolf plays I'm guessing they're probably batting about average league wide for goaltenders turning out as there are no first round picks, and only two selected before the third round.
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The Flames drafted Gillies, or did you mean the current management team didn't select?
Edit: Because if that's what you mean't (and I think it is) then you can remove McDonald from the list too, as he was more of a Burke pick than a Treliving.
Last edited by CalgaryFan1988; 08-30-2021 at 10:17 AM.
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08-30-2021, 10:16 AM
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#35
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988
The Flames drafted Gillies, or did you mean the current management team didn't select?
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I believe Bingo is talking about current and former Management .
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08-30-2021, 10:19 AM
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#36
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988
The Flames drafted Gillies, or did you mean the current management team didn't select?
Edit: Because if that's what you mean't (and I think it is) then you can remove McDonald from the list too, as he was more of a Burke pick than a Treliving.
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Exactly ... Gillies was a Flames pick but not a Treliving pick.
Think it best to leave McDonald as a Treliving pick so not to split hairs or spin. Good argument can be made that that was Burke's draft for sure though.
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08-30-2021, 10:48 AM
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#37
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Regina
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🤞🤞🤞 Dustin Wolf. Parsons is a bust. But if Wolf is a bust then yea we should never ever draft a Goalie ever again.
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08-30-2021, 11:00 AM
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#38
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
They didn’t give up on him
He was a pending unrestricted free agent who they moved to get a return instead of losing for nothing
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Could have re-signed him if they thought he was a 1b. I dont believe they agreed with us is what I'm getting at. They had opportunity to do so at any time before hand. If he does prove to be a solid 1b as we think he is then its effectively the same as giving up on developing him. I personally liked him and thought they should have re-signed him and continued to develop him. A lot of his issues was getting too emotional and it reeked of Mike Smith rubbing off on him but the impression I get is they didnt feel the same way about keeping him.
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08-30-2021, 11:08 AM
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#39
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psytic
Could have re-signed him if they thought he was a 1b. I dont believe they agreed with us is what I'm getting at. They had opportunity to do so at any time before hand. If he does prove to be a solid 1b as we think he is then its effectively the same as giving up on developing him. I personally liked him and thought they should have re-signed him and continued to develop him. A lot of his issues was getting too emotional and it reeked of Mike Smith rubbing off on him but the impression I get is they didnt feel the same way about keeping him.
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You don't have (a) Markstrom and (b) a 1B goalie.
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08-30-2021, 11:08 AM
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#40
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
If you want to talk about development this is your list ...
Mason McDonald (2014) 34th Overall
Tyler Parsons (2016) 54th Overall
Daniil Chechelev (2020) 96th Overall
Dustin Wolf (2019) 214th Overall
Arseni Sergeev (2021) 205th Overall
and I guess add in Rittich. Jon Gillies they developed but didn't select.
Those are the players selected or acquired by the current regime. No point in hanging poor goalie development in Al Coates or Cliff Fletcher's time on the current management group.
If Wolf plays I'm guessing they're probably batting about average league wide for goaltenders turning out as there are no first round picks, and only two selected before the third round.
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I think the full body of work is relevant because it seems like it doesn't matter who is running the ship they cant seem to home grow and keep a goalie outside of Vernon. I dont know who is to blame but it seems like an organizational issue when its been that many decades.
Could be a coincidence that every regime has had the same issue but it seems like a problem none the less. Its almost reached 1C status for this team if we're looking at it through the years. It hasn't been as big an issue as they have been able to use picks or sign UFAs but still that's cap and picks that could be used some where else if they could actually draft and develop or hang onto one.
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