The Skill FAQ - How can skillz pay the bills?

[KevanGuy]

Umm, I think that was a coincidence. Negative rep isnt really given out for fatas.

Well, if you have blue and dont get any positive rep then yeah, I guess it would stay forever.

[Hack&Lube]

I have a question, I am certain I saw a poster with two red boxes. Does that mean skill can actually increase your number of boxes? What is the general numeric value required for this?

[ken0042]

It goes up geometrically. Your first positive skill gives you one red box. After about 4-6 more you get a second red box. It then takes about 15 more to get a 3rd.

[Burninator]

It doesn't really matter, but I am just curious, but roughly what are the increments for the Exp boxes?

[photon]

Depends on how good it is.*

*Note, porn will still get you banned, but if it is good then you'll get a red skill first.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by fotze

I just want to be clear, what type of post will get a bluey?

Post porn?

All I had to do was post a thread about not jinxing shutouts to get negative skill points. Pretty rediculous if you ask me.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by alltherage

All I had to do was post a thread about not jinxing shutouts to get negative skill points. Pretty rediculous if you ask me.

Whining about it likely isn't going to help.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Whining about it likely isn't going to help.

I don't really care about skill at this point, Jiri. It seems totally groundless and unbalanced in my opinion.

As for the "whining" comment, i'm not looking for help, and i'm not whining. I'm sharing my experience. To me it doesn't sound like alot of people understand or like the skill ratings.

It looks like more of a hierarchy implimentation, which deliberately takes credability away from people regardless of the quality of their opinions. If someone makes a bad post, fine. They will get razzed by other posters either way. (See my terrible Bettman thread). When that same person makes a good post later on, it maybe gets disregarded, a product of the blue box to the left of the post. The skill level is not something I agree with, but I put up with it because I like this place for other reasons.

I would like to see a poll about how people feel about the skill. If people like it, I'll shut up about it. If people don't, maybe it needs to be re-visited.

[photon]

Originally Posted by alltherage

I would like to see a poll about how people feel about the skill. If people like it, I'll shut up about it. If people don't, maybe it needs to be re-visited.

Well there already was a poll about it long ago.. and the results of a poll aren't the measure of it anyway; this isn't a democracy.

Do positive posts get missed? Sure, we can't read every post. Do negative posts get missed? Sure, we can't read every post. If you see something deserving of a positive skill, please report it and let us know.

Overall the amount of positive skill given out is greater than the amount of negative skill given.

The goal isn't something for people to game up in the short term, it's something in the long term for habitually great posters to be recognized for their efforts, and habitually poor posters to be given feedback and eventually dealt with.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by alltherage

As for the "whining" comment, i'm not looking for help, and i'm not whining. I'm sharing my experience. To me it doesn't sound like alot of people understand or like the skill ratings.

Based on what? The fact that people complaining about their blue posts in this thread don't like it?

Originally Posted by alltherage

It looks like more of a hierarchy implimentation, which deliberately takes credability away from people regardless of the quality of their opinions. If someone makes a bad post, fine. They will get razzed by other posters either way. (See my terrible Bettman thread). When that same person makes a good post later on, it maybe gets disregarded, a product of the blue box to the left of the post. The skill level is not something I agree with, but I put up with it because I like this place for other reasons.

There is no hierarchy implementation or conspiracy to hand out blue squares or red squares to certain posters. Why would there be? If anything if I see someone that has a blue square make a solid post I got out of my way to give them positive rating. And I know a lot of others that give out rep do the same.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by photon

Well there already was a poll about it long ago.. and the results of a poll aren't the measure of it anyway; this isn't a democracy.

This is a democracy in one sense: If people dont like it here, they leave. If people leave, this site is no longer making money. That isn't to say that i, the member, have ultimate power or that any other member does, as it's in the hands of the mods. The mods do whats in the best interest of the board, and that is to keep members happy. If I am one unhappy member among 50, so be it, and my opinion will be disregarded. I can live with that.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Based on what? The fact that people complaining about their blue posts in this thread don't like it?

There is no hierarchy implementation or conspiracy to hand out blue squares or red squares to certain posters. Why would there be? If anything if I see someone that has a blue square make a solid post I got out of my way to give them positive rating. And I know a lot of others that give out rep do the same.

I didn't say anything about a conspiracy, i said hierarchy implimentation. All that means is that the skill is a way to rate posters, giving some people higher esteem than others. Thats a hierarchy. Thats what the skill does.

I'm not saying "the world is out to get me! CP mods hate me!" I'm sure I'm a pain in the ass sometimes, but right now I'm just voicing my opinions on topics I care about.

As far as skill is concerned, I think the system is flawed. I've received multiple negative skill points for the same one post. I've received negative skill points even after fixing my posts (for language) and apologizing to people. I've received negative skill points for a thread about jinxing the shutout, which many people agreed with me, and posted similar sentiments. Sure, luck isn't as tangible as some things, but its for fun, and is sometimes even important to some people.

Don't take this stuff as unappreciation for the site and the jobs you guys do. Its tough moderating anything, much less and internet forum, and I really like this place! Its my first flames news source over anywhere else, and i like the community. Maybe thats why I hate my blue square so much, because i take it as public humiliation in a weird way. Nothing's perfect, and I understand that, but this skill system could be better for sure. Maybe the skill system should be something that posters vote on, or that is something anyone can give to anyone. I know I've recomended posetive skill before and its gone unnoticed.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by alltherage

This is a democracy in one sense: If people dont like it here, they leave. If people leave, this site is no longer making money.

Just wanted to comment on this. This isn't an alternate source of income for Bingo. He provides this site to us, free of cost, and makes back the money he pays out to maintain this site through the advertisers. It would be much less work for him if people decided to leave. I know the mods enjoy the site as much as we do, but they put in a lot of hard work and thankless effort to keep the show running and they do it voluntarily, on their own time.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Just wanted to comment on this. This isn't an alternate source of income for Bingo. He provides this site to us, free of cost, and makes back the money he pays out to maintain this site through the advertisers. It would be much less work for him if people decided to leave. I know the mods enjoy the site as much as we do, but they put in a lot of hard work and thankless effort to keep the show running and they do it voluntarily, on their own time.

Thats actually interesting, rube, I didnt know that. I thought they made a small profit for sure, but thats a good point.

I think my point stands though, in that I dont think Bingo would continue if it was just a drain of cash.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by alltherage

Thats actually interesting, rube, I didnt know that. I thought they made a small profit for sure, but thats a good point.

I think my point stands though, in that I dont think Bingo would continue if it was just a drain of cash.

Well fine, but that's kind of circular logic.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Well fine, but that's kind of circular logic.

How so?

[photon]

Originally Posted by alltherage

This is a democracy in one sense: If people dont like it here, they leave. If people leave, this site is no longer making money. That isn't to say that i, the member, have ultimate power or that any other member does, as it's in the hands of the mods. The mods do whats in the best interest of the board, and that is to keep members happy. If I am one unhappy member among 50, so be it, and my opinion will be disregarded. I can live with that.

That people can leave doesn't make it a democracy, it just means they can leave. And I don't think the driving purpose of the site is to make money, if it was we wouldn't make any attempt at all to influence the quality of posts.

As far as skill is concerned, I think the system is flawed. I've received multiple negative skill points for the same one post.

That's a flaw in the forum software and unfortunately there's not a lot we can do about it, and in one way that's even desired (a truely horrid post should draw more negative skill than a minorly bad post). EDIT: And that said, the number of posts that get multiple negatives, is quite low percentage wise.

I've received negative skill points even after fixing my posts (for language) and apologizing to people.

The display isn't real time you realize; someone can get the page, come back some time later and post a skill rating while in the interim you edited the post. It's impossible to do anything about that.

Maybe thats why I hate my blue square so much, because i take it as public humiliation in a weird way. Nothing's perfect, and I understand that, but this skill system could be better for sure.

The intent isn't public humiliation, the intent is to provide feedback on the kinds of things that we want and don't want to see. It's done by humans so its subjective and opinons will vary a bit between one skill giver and another.

And if you have a suggestion as to how the skill system could be better, make it.

Maybe the skill system should be something that posters vote on, or that is something anyone can give to anyone. I know I've recomended posetive skill before and its gone unnoticed.

Those were things that were discussed at great length publically on the forum, and they have positives and negatives. And the one time you recommended a positive skill it did not go unnoticed.

[photon]

Originally Posted by alltherage

I think my point stands though, in that I dont think Bingo would continue if it was just a drain of cash.

That's a pretty big assumption to base a whole premise on. Like I said, the goal of the site isn't to make money. The mods and admins don't get cheques each month, and if the advertising pays for the significant cost of hosting then great, and if there's some profit then I think that's awesome because then it might help Bingo better deal with people who make assumptions as to his motivations.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by photon

That people can leave doesn't make it a democracy, it just means they can leave.

My point was that the forum wouldn't exist if everyone left, therefore the people here DO have some say in what goes on.

The display isn't real time you realize; someone can get the page, come back some time later and post a skill rating while in the interim you edited the post. It's impossible to do anything about that.

There's no way to remove skill or negative skill 5 seconds after it's given?

The intent isn't public humiliation, the intent is to provide feedback on the kinds of things that we want and don't want to see. It's done by humans so its subjective and opinons will vary a bit between one skill giver and another.

If the intent isn't public humiliation, then why is it a publicly visible reprimandation?

Those were things that were discussed at great length publically on the forum, and they have positives and negatives. And the one time you recommended a positive skill it did not go unnoticed.

If it didnt go unnoticed, it went unactivated. His skill was grey, and I don't remember him getting a red square out of it... unless my reasoning was simply not good enough for him to get it, or he got the skill days after i recommended it.

Originally Posted by photon

That's a pretty big assumption to base a whole premise on. Like I said, the goal of the site isn't to make money. The mods and admins don't get cheques each month, and if the advertising pays for the significant cost of hosting then great, and if there's some profit then I think that's awesome because then it might help Bingo better deal with people who make assumptions as to his motivations.

I'm trying to have a real conversation here without getting adversarial about it.

I was assuming that he makes money off the site because that is generally the purpose for having sites like this.

I've already addressed that:

Thats actually interesting, rube, I didnt know that. I thought they made a small profit for sure, but thats a good point.

[photon]

Originally Posted by alltherage

My point was that the forum wouldn't exist if everyone left, therefore the people here DO have some say in what goes on.

It would still exist, it just wouldn't be very interesting. I never said people didn't have any say at all, I said it wasn't a democracy in response to you calling for a vote. Of course we consider all input, just because it's not acted upon does not mean it's not considered.

There's no way to remove skill or negative skill 5 seconds after it's given?

Of course there's a way, but that would be a manual process. Someone isn't going to go over all the skill given out all day long monitoring it.

If the intent isn't public humiliation, then why is it a publicly visible reprimandation?

The comment isn't public, just the rough showing of the sum total. If it was private there would be no reason to pay attention to it at all, no behaviour would change. This was all discussed at length.

If it didnt go unnoticed, it went unactivated. His skill was grey, and I don't remember him getting a red square out of it... unless my reasoning was simply not good enough for him to get it, or he got the skill days after i recommended it.

Both of which are equally possible, but you choose to complain about it first before considering the alternatives...

I'm trying to have a real conversation here without getting adversarial about it.

I was assuming that he makes money off the site because that is generally the purpose for having sites like this.

I've already addressed that:

Having a discussion is fine.. making comments and judgments about someone else's actions based on your own assumptions is wrong. You have no idea what kinds of things Bingo has gone through to provide this free service to you. Gratitude usually involves not making broad generalizations, at least IMO.

Calling something ridiculous at the outset pretty much sets an adversarial tone.

You've made your point about the skill system. I hope I've helped clarify a few things for you.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by photon

but you choose to complain about it first before considering the alternatives...

I didn't get any kind of feedback on it whatsoever, and it didnt seem to change, so whats the point of recommending if its falling on deaf ears?

Having a discussion is fine.. making comments and judgments about someone else's actions based on your own assumptions is wrong. You have no idea what kinds of things Bingo has gone through to provide this free service to you. Gratitude usually involves not making broad generalizations, at least IMO.

That is true. I am grateful for this venue for the puck heads and myself.

Calling something ridiculous at the outset pretty much sets an adversarial tone.

Opinions are such because they belong to one person. I said it was rediculous "if you ask me".
_______

All that aside, Photon, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk about all this with me. I know Its really hard to tell what the demeanor of someone is on the net, I hope you realize that I'm not trying to get under anyones skin or anything, and i have vast gratitude for everything on this board.

Sometimes gratitude is hard to find in constructive criticism. I hope you and the mods have found it in mine, because if I didn't care about the forum I definitely wouldn't make suggestions on how to improve it.

I appreciate your attention, and your input really has clarified things for me, and hopefully others.