Seven Days in Kabul

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by RoadGame

A tiny bit of good news to start the day:

https://twitter.com/AirMobilityCmd/s...00131524845569

"CORRECTION: A
@usairforce
C-17 Globemaster III safely transported 823 Afghan citizens from Hamid Karzai International Airport Aug. 15, 2021. This is a record for this aircraft.

The initial count of 640 inadvertently included only adults. 183 children were also aboard."

That is great news, but man, that sounds like it could have been a catastrophe accidentally overloading aircrafts full of civilians like that. Thank goodness nothing went wrong.

[CaptainCrunch]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1428914781239586816

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

https://twitter.com/user/status/1428914781239586816

That makes no sense. Of course we can't take 800 people and fly non-stop, but she's implying we can't take that many because of that regardless? She mentions in the string we are flying to Kuwait, that's only 1670nm straight line distance, the C-17 can take a payload of 160,000lbs and fly 2800nm.

Assuming each person is 200lbs... that's still 800 people.... Seems to me we have no problem fully loading and flying to a next refuel. We only need to reduce fuel load if we wanted to fly further than 2800nm.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

That makes no sense. Of course we can't take 800 people and fly non-stop, but she's implying we can't take that many because of that regardless? She mentions in the string we are flying to Kuwait, that's only 1670nm straight line distance, the C-17 can take a payload of 160,000lbs and fly 2800nm.

Assuming each person is 200lbs... that's still 800 people.... Seems to me we have no problem fully loading and flying to a next refuel. We only need to reduce fuel load if we wanted to fly further than 2800nm.

and there's no need to fly to the gulf, we cant unload in Pakistan but we can certainly refuel

[Locke]

This all sounds like embarrassed 5th Graders trying to come up with excuses for a bad report card.

[CaptainCrunch]

So now the strategy is to wear red and scream we're Canadian. Then get turned away by American and Afghan troops because we don't have a real feet on the ground presence.


The Immigration Minister, Prime Minister, Defense Minister and Foreign Affairs Ministers need to get every square inch of their asses kicked.

[zamler]

People are getting trampled and shot trying to get out. This is 100% on you American policy, special thanks to GW Bush. Biden appears to have no clue what is going on, Trump decided to negotiate which makes zero sense. The entire thing is an epic failure and a human tragedy. No one will be face any real consequences.

[Baron von Kriterium]

It's a desperate situation in Kabul and it could very likely get worse in the coming days. A Taliban spokesman has put the USA on notice and expects that the USA will stick to their 31 Aug 21 deadline for withdrawal - warning of "consequences" if the the Americans/others remain past the deadline.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1430159493913059339

On the other hand, France and the UK are pressuring Biden to extend the deadline.

The Pentagon is stating that American troops in Afghanistan will be 'zero' on 31 Aug 21, so they will have to begin extracting from Kabul's airport starting around Friday this week. And they will have to pull the trigger in the next 24 hours to change the current plans. Things could get quite dicey when the locals notice the troops leaving and they realize their opportunity to get on a plane diminishes by the minute. Will they rush the planes? I assume the Taliban will provide the security as the US troops leave.

[CaptainCrunch]

Even with CSF on the ground with the idea of leaving the airport to collect Canadians, we're still hearing that these poor people aren't seeing Canadians and are having major paperwork issues.



What a Clusterflop (edited TBS Heartbreak Ridge word usage)


Also people who are online and on twitter who were communicating with interpreters and their family are either telling horror stories of Taliban beatings etc, or have just dropped off and haven't been heard from in days.

[Manhattanboy]

Canada could have completed its evacuations safely and efficiently months ago.

This was totally foreseeable. Disgraceful.

Trudeau should be turfed from office on this one issue alone.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Canada could have completed its evacuations safely and efficiently months ago.

This was totally foreseeable. Disgraceful.

Trudeau should be turfed from office on this one issue alone.

I have been highly critical of how Trudeau and Biden handled this, but I really think anyone who lived there and knew how quickly it would have fell apart would have bought a plane ticket months ago to leave.

I think it honestly surprised even some locals. I know a month ago some were telling the news that their family sold everything and bought a house in Kabul to stay safe.

Make no mistake Trudeau dithering on a plan until 11th hour and only due to pressure is all on him. Its also on Biden as well. Just a complete mess up on an exit plan, with too many assumptions things will just work.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I am not at all surprised that the locals were caught off guard - they didn't know the extent and suddenness of the exit that was to come. But Biden certainly did, and Trudeau presumably had some information about what the US was going to do. So failure to foresee this and ensure that it wasn't a cluster**** is absolutely something he should be criticized for harshly.

That said, and I'm not as educated on this as some, but assuming that no one could convince the Biden administration not to suddenly vanish in the dead of night along with all of the civilian contractors and associates that the Afghans were relying on, did Trudeau have much of a choice but to go along with it? I mean, the only circumstances in which Canada was going to stay there was with the protection of a US security umbrella. It's not like the Canadian military could have said, "oh, 2,500 military personnel are being removed? We'll replace them with 2,500 Canadian service members", and just gone on as normal, right?

[CaptainCrunch]

Erin O'Toole wrote Foreign Affairs in 2016 telling them they had to start getting these people out.

The Veterans of Afghanistan has been working at getting people out with their own money. People in those circles and I'm sure Intelligence were probably screaming when Biden took office and when he announced the withdraw time line.

The Veterans lost their collective minds a while ago when they were getting zero help from the government and spending their own money to evacuate Interpreters

The government didn't spring into action until we saw the speed of the Taliban, and by spring into action Immigration and Foreign affairs got their feet tangled in stupidity and fell down a flight of stairs.

Then with the election call while this was going going on. Canadian assets were literally sitting on the ground in Kuwait for another week waiting for some direction from the government.

We can't simply say, well we had no warning. Especially while nothing was really done except a stupid 72 hour window, a non functioning portal for people to do paper work in triplicate on line in a company with little to no internet. And Paperwork that doesn't seem to be getting people through the Gates of Hell.

I would have gained respect for the government if during this campaign Justin would have recalled parliament, formed a working group or something. Instead he came out and basically couched.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I am not at all surprised that the locals were caught off guard - they didn't know the extent and suddenness of the exit that was to come. But Biden certainly did, and Trudeau presumably had some information about what the US was going to do. So failure to foresee this and ensure that it wasn't a cluster**** is absolutely something he should be criticized for harshly.

That said, and I'm not as educated on this as some, but assuming that no one could convince the Biden administration not to suddenly vanish in the dead of night along with all of the civilian contractors and associates that the Afghans were relying on, did Trudeau have much of a choice but to go along with it? I mean, the only circumstances in which Canada was going to stay there was with the protection of a US security umbrella. It's not like the Canadian military could have said, "oh, 2,500 military personnel are being removed? We'll replace them with 2,500 Canadian service members", and just gone on as normal, right?

the withdrawal deal, signed over a year ago was clear, the yanks were supposed to be long gone by May, I dont know how anyone would think when the US lose a war and sign the surrender that they would do anything but leave.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

I have been highly critical of how Trudeau and Biden handled this, but I really think anyone who lived there and knew how quickly it would have fell apart would have bought a plane ticket months ago to leave.

I think it honestly surprised even some locals. I know a month ago some were telling the news that their family sold everything and bought a house in Kabul to stay safe.

Make no mistake Trudeau dithering on a plan until 11th hour and only due to pressure is all on him. Its also on Biden as well. Just a complete mess up on an exit plan, with too many assumptions things will just work.

I have a friend who fought with the Danes in Helmand province for three (maybe two?) tours - ending back in 2009. Even back then, he said that the ANA and Afghan police had zero chance of holding off the Taliban without NATO support.

He basically said that anytime the ANA was involved in an operation, it was primarily a political stunt. ANA has always had low combat effectiveness, high corruption, and very little support among the populace.

Afghanistan is what happens when you try to force a modern nation state into a region that has really functioned as a loose confederation of tribes for 2000 years.

We always knew this was a war we couldn't really win.

[CaptainCrunch]

Biden confirms there will be no extent on their mission, all troops gone on the 31st.


Its unlikely that Canada will stay past the American's leaving since they're the ones that secure the airport. Canada and the other allies won't do it, they'll be gone before the 31st.


A retired General has calculated that we have gotten 15% of our people out to this point and that it will be impossible to get our people out by the deadline. (CTV news, power play.)


We have 7 days to get thousands of people to get out, or they'll have to make their way out to other countries on their own. There's going to be a lot of blood on the Western Worlds hands.

[wwkayaker]

I saw a news report in which the Taliban says it will not allow any more people to leave. The taliban has blocked the road to the airport essentially shutting off access.

[MillerTime GFG]

It was the rescue mission that didn’t happen.

A large group of Afghan interpreters and their families were gathered together by Canadian government officials in a group and waited all day and night for the heroes to come and take them into the safe confines of the Kabul airport.


But no one ever came.

“We are devastated,” said one the interpreters.

“We really thought this was it.”

It won’t go down in the books as the courageous rescue so many had hoped for. It will go down as a missed opportunity. Instead they were abandoned yet again. This time by a gas station that was supposed to the staging place. Instead they were texted to “go back to your safe houses.”

Must be somebody in Ottawa who suggested that. There is nowhere safe in Afghanistan. And few houses to go home to.

https://torontosun.com/news/national...mWyL22FFg6oun4

[afc wimbledon]

At this point we should be making it clear to the Taliban we will pay for our people, 5000 bucks a head, paid upon delivery and only if they haven't been harmed

[Manhattanboy]

Between the debacles in Afghanistan and China these are not proud days for Canada.