Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

It's a dick move to trade him mid September if that means further delay of his procedure.

I don't really understand why they aren't just pulling the trigger on this and moving forward.

They're going to get some high quality pieces for the future, and just as importantly they get to put all of this behind them. That organization has taken a beating publicly as of late with this Eichel ordeal and then Lehner coming out and lambasting their medical staff.

Just get it done, and start getting your fans excited about the future. Turn the page, this chapter in Sabres history should be over.

[The Yen Man]

You would think Eichel's trade value is dropping by the day. Had it have been done earlier in the summer, Eichel would have had the surgery and already in his recovery window. Now, he gets traded mid Sep, and the team who gets him will have to most likely burn the whole 2021-2022 season without him.

I guess in the long run, this means Flames give up less to get him if they do get him. So I'm ok with playing chicken with Buffalo. If we get him, great. If not, we move on.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

You would think Eichel's trade value is dropping by the day. Had it have been done earlier in the summer, Eichel would have had the surgery and already in his recovery window. Now, he gets traded mid Sep, and the team who gets him will have to most likely burn the whole 2021-2022 season without him.

I guess in the long run, this means Flames give up less to get him if they do get him. So I'm ok with playing chicken with Buffalo. If we get him, great. If not, we move on.

It’s a very strange trade at this point. Looking at the teams that might be trading for him right now (NY, Anaheim, Calgary), they aren’t teams that can give up quality players to acquire him and still be very competitive while they wait for eichel to get healthy. I would argue that Calgary is probably in the best position of those teams to give up a player like Monahan and still battle for a playoff spot, but it would definitely make it tougher.

So Buffalo is limiting themselves even more in terms of interested teams because I think it needs to be a team that is ready to compete (i.e. not at the beginning of a rebuild) and is also good enough to give up a first-round quality asset from their roster without sinking their team for the year. Plus the team needs to have the cap space to fit in eichel.

Any team trading for him will likely be giving up a 1st round pick in 2022 that could potentially be a valuable pick because the team is missing both eichel and the roster player they give up (Monahan for example). Which means that pick should have some protections on it. I suggested something like this:

If eichel plays more than 50 games this year, it’s top 5 protected.
If eichel plays less than 50 games this year, it’s top 10 protected.

This could be a big hold up in trade talks. Buffalo is probably thinking it would only be fair for them to get a top five pick for eichel since he is a top center in the league and other teams have gotten that from trading players like Duchene and Karlsson. Karlsson came with serious injury issues when he was traded too and the pick that was included in the package for him was not protected.


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[Strange Brew]

I'd be surprised if teams are lowering their offers for Eichel at this point. Still seems like it is a competitive marketplace for him.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I'd be surprised if teams are lowering their offers for Eichel at this point. Still seems like it is a competitive marketplace for him.

I doubt teams are lowering their offers either. All that could happen is some teams might drop out. But I think any trade talks would collapse if teams start telling Buffalo the offer they made two weeks ago is now off the table and they’re taking pieces out of the package.


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[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I'd be surprised if teams are lowering their offers for Eichel at this point. Still seems like it is a competitive marketplace for him.

They might not be lowering their offers, more like they're sticking to their initial offers, and waiting for Buffalo to blink. At this point, we don't know what the Flames offer is. We just have speculation of what Buffalo wants.

It's like a 4 way dance I guess. Buffalo's strategy probably is still playing teams in contention off each other to get the closest to what they want, but other teams might just be adamant in what they're offering hoping theirs is the best offer. Either one of the competing teams will blink first, or Buffalo accepts one of the deals offered. I'm just surprised like everyone else that it's dragged on this long.

[dino7c]

Buffalo doesn't care how bad they do this season but at some point you need to move on

[Robbob]

I get it from Adams perspective. Trying to get a team to blink because the sooner the trade is done the sooner the surgery can happen. If the trade partner blinks now they get Eichel for probably 3/4 of the season vs 1/2 if this drags late into September.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don't really understand why they aren't just pulling the trigger on this and moving forward.

They're going to get some high quality pieces for the future, and just as importantly they get to put all of this behind them. That organization has taken a beating publicly as of late with this Eichel ordeal and then Lehner coming out and lambasting their medical staff.

Just get it done, and start getting your fans excited about the future. Turn the page, this chapter in Sabres history should be over.

It’s pretty clear they aren’t getting the offers they want or else it would be done.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I get it from Adams perspective. Trying to get a team to blink because the sooner the trade is done the sooner the surgery can happen. If the trade partner blinks now they get Eichel for probably 3/4 of the season vs 1/2 if this drags late into September.

Which only improves the chances that the first round pick he gets in 2022 will be better. Wonder if teams would prefer for the pick to be in 2023 since eichel is more likely to be healthy by the 2022-2023 season. I would still want a top 5 protection on that 2023 pick though. A lot can happen to derail a team in two years even if they have a player like eichel. For example, the flames could have to trade tkachuk before the 2022-2023 season and not have as much high end talent on the team for that year.


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[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by robertsfanatic

Would any of our CP capologists be able to answer this (convoluted) question for me?

If Eichel was acquired without sending back any meaningful salary and then placed on LTIR after surgery, at what point in the season would be be able to return so that our current cap space would be enough on a pro-rated basis? Is this even possible?

I checked for a calculator on capfriendly but didn't see one.

As has been explained, if they traded for Eichel now, and he were put on LTIR, they would not bank any space, so they would never be compliant with the roster as is.

However, if they traded for him ONCE HE WAS READY TO RETURN, that is a different story. Assuming no other moves, and they hit the season with about $4M in cap space, they would need to sit on that for roughly 60% of the season. that means about the 50 game mark, which is the end of January.

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

However, if they traded for him ONCE HE WAS READY TO RETURN, that is a different story. Assuming no other moves, and they hit the season with about $4M in cap space, they would need to sit on that for roughly 60% of the season. that means about the 50 game mark, which is the end of January.

yes this is what I was thinking about and thank you and everyone who explained about the non-accrual of cap space with LTIR.

if we could add Eichel without losing one of our top 6 for at least this year then watch out.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Weitz

It’s pretty clear they aren’t getting the offers they want or else it would be done.

Yeah which is fair.

...but at some point you have to realize that your asset isn't worth your ask.

It's like Monahan and Treliving over the last two years, except keeping Monahan is an option for Treliving. Keeping Eichel is not an option for Adams, so he's likely just trying to use the time available to him...but that time has to be nearing its end. Having Eichel sit out the full season because you don't want him to get the surgery he wants, while he isn't medically cleared to play doesn't seem like a path forward for either party.

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I'd be surprised if teams are lowering their offers for Eichel at this point. Still seems like it is a competitive marketplace for him.

I could see offers changing, for example Calgary would want to keep their roster players and give more futures since they want to compete this year.

I could also see the need for a cap dump being added now from Calgary since a player like Monahan can't go the other way.


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[Weitz]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah which is fair.

...but at some point you have to realize that your asset isn't worth your ask.

It's like Monahan and Treliving over the last two years, except keeping Monahan is an option for Treliving. Keeping Eichel is not an option for Adams, so he's likely just trying to use the time available to him...but that time has to be nearing its end. Having Eichel sit out the full season because you don't want him to get the surgery he wants, while he isn't medically cleared to play doesn't seem like a path forward for either party.

I imagine soon Eichel gets his surgery and then plays games for Buffalo this upcoming season before being traded. I highly doubt they are going to drop their ask.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I imagine soon Eichel gets his surgery and then plays games for Buffalo this upcoming season before being traded. I highly doubt they are going to drop their ask.

Except Buffalo won't allow him to get the surgery that he wants. So I doubt that very much.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Except Buffalo won't allow him to get the surgery that he wants. So I doubt that very much.

The morning show had the buffalo reported on last week and that was his prediction.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I imagine soon Eichel gets his surgery and then plays games for Buffalo this upcoming season before being traded. I highly doubt they are going to drop their ask.

0% chance Eichel plays another game for the Sabers. That ship sailed a long time ago.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by bax

0% chance Eichel plays another game for the Sabers. That ship sailed a long time ago.

There's $10 million reasons why the ship hasn't sailed.

Just a prediction - Let him get his surgery then tell him to come back and play and show teams you are ok then they will trade him.

I don't think they are going to just dump him for a lesser amount.

[Roof-Daddy]

Yes, I certainly wouldn't put Eichels chances at suiting up for the Sabres at 0%

They appear very stubborn, and may just say F it, get your surgery, come back and rebuild your value, then we'll trade you for what we deem is a fair return.