Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's a simple solution too.

If you offer a player you drafted the rookie max contract, you retain their rights. Almost like a qualifying offer.

Doesn't force a player to sign but gives the drafting team more leverage if they do need to trade the player without the threat of him being able to leave as a UFA.

For how long would you suggest they keep his rights?

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

lol

No it did not. Trading for Dougie Hamilton got us Lindholm and Hanifin.

You can't seriously believe Adam Fox was the cornerstone of that deal.

Even a year later, after putting up 48 points in 33 games in hockey east as a Dman all he got the Canes was two 2nd round picks from the Rangers.


EDIT: Also, that is the point. Teams should not have to asses the risk of a college player bolting on them. There is already enough risk in the draft when choosing players. You should be able to draft the player you believe will be the best pick in the long run and not have to factor in crap like them running to a preferred team. Especially when the preferred team is usually just a handful of certain teams in the league who now have an unfair advantage over the rest of the teams which undermines the draft entirely.

I didn't say it was the cornerstone, but he was a prospect that was very highly thought of at the time, so he definitely added value to that trade and was likely a requirement from Carolina's side.
The only solution I can see for this would be to make college players ineligible for the draft. If you turn pro, or are not enrolled in college for the following year then you can enter the draft.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by dammage79

So is this the same Twitter account that was fake but still verified or is this actually Eichel’s Twitter account this time.

Given that it's followed by @nhl, it would be genuine.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I didn't say it was the cornerstone, but he was a prospect that was very highly thought of at the time, so he definitely added value to that trade and was likely a requirement from Carolina's side.
The only solution I can see for this would be to make college players ineligible for the draft. If you turn pro, or are not enrolled in college for the following year then you can enter the draft.

Why can't they just make it so that the first year out of college the drafting team still has signing rights for the next 2 seasons. as long as a max entry level is offered by July 1 of the first offseason. If the player chooses not to sign they can't play in the NHL for 2 seasons.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's a simple solution too.

If you offer a player you drafted the rookie max contract, you retain their rights. Almost like a qualifying offer.

Doesn't force a player to sign but gives the drafting team more leverage if they do need to trade the player without the threat of him being able to leave as a UFA.

This just makes too much sense.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Why can't they just make it so that the first year out of college the drafting team still has signing rights for the next 2 seasons. as long as a max entry level is offered by July 1 of the first offseason. If the player chooses not to sign they can't play in the NHL for 2 seasons.

The league can't just unilaterally make the rules as it sees fit. It's all negotiated in the CBA. If the owners want the players to give in on that, the players will want something else in return.

In the grand scheme of things, it's such a minor issue that it's not really worth it for the league to push it.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I didn't say it was the cornerstone, but he was a prospect that was very highly thought of at the time, so he definitely added value to that trade and was likely a requirement from Carolina's side.

You make it sound like a deal couldn't have been reached unless Fox was involved. I highly doubt that. They wanted Hamilton. They were willing to take Fox I'm sure, because they were in the eastern USA and thought maybe they'd have an outside shot at convincing him to sign, and then worst case scenario they could do what they did, and flip him to the Rags for a couple of picks. Plus, since he put up way more production and put himself into Hobey Baker contention, his value had only grown in the year they had him in their org. The Flames still get the Hanifin and Lindholm trade done by simply adding a 2nd rounder more than likely.

Originally Posted by VilleN

The only solution I can see for this would be to make college players ineligible for the draft. If you turn pro, or are not enrolled in college for the following year then you can enter the draft.

Making college players ineligible for the draft would be a disaster. So many more players are choosing that route now, and even more would in the future if they were able to forgo the draft and sign wherever they wanted.

I'm sure the Rangers, Blackhawks, Lightning and all the other sun belt teams would absolutely LOOOOOVE that rule.

There are other much better solutions posted in the last few posts of this thread.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

We've seen dozen(s) use the NCAA path to UFA, but none that I'm aware of takin the other path...the proof is in the pudding.

Dozens? I don't think it's even close to one dozen. I can't even think of five.

Who was there: Wheeler, Schultz, Hayes, Vesey? Is there anyone else who played out their full four years and their drafting team got no compensation? Actually, come to think of it, Wheeler and Hayes were first round picks, so the Coyotes and Blackhawks were compensated.

You also have a few guys like Marino and Fox who essentially forced their drafting team to trade them, but those teams did get compensated through those trades.

Realistically, a compensatory draft pick is the best anyone could hope for. In a collectively-bargained world, there's no way they could ever force a player to sign with a team if he didn't want to.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by getbak

Dozens? I don't think it's even close to one dozen. I can't even think of five.

Who was there: Wheeler, Schultz, Hayes, Vesey? Is there anyone else who played out their full four years and their drafting team got no compensation? Actually, come to think of it, Wheeler and Hayes were first round picks, so the Coyotes and Blackhawks were compensated.

You also have a few guys like Marino and Fox who essentially forced their drafting team to trade them, but those teams did get compensated through those trades.

Realistically, a compensatory draft pick is the best anyone could hope for. In a collectively-bargained world, there's no way they could ever force a player to sign with a team if he didn't want to.

Once is all it takes when you lose a 22 year old Norris winner because he gets to bend thw rules to his whim.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by getbak

The league can't just unilaterally make the rules as it sees fit. It's all negotiated in the CBA. If the owners want the players to give in on that, the players will want something else in return.

In the grand scheme of things, it's such a minor issue that it's not really worth it for the league to push it.

I think some teams like the rule how it is so finding a consensus among owners would be tough. For some teams, I think they would love to see the rules changed. And for a bunch of others it’s not much of a thought at all. It probably averages out to be a minor issue overall.

The real question is what would the NHL have to negotiate away in order to take something from the players. CBA rule changes don’t come for free. If the cost was a lower free agency age or something like that, even the Flames would think twice about it.

If the Flames should be concerned about anything, it is the lax rules around NMCs.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Once is all it takes when you lose a 22 year old Norris winner because he gets to bend thw rules to his whim.

What rule bending was there done? He took advantage of a clearly laid out rule. Just because you are drafted by a certain team doesn't mean the team owns you forever.

It sucks Flames lost out on a guy who decided to wait it out and sign with his desired team, but Flames did come out looking pretty good in getting both Lindholm and Hanifin out of it. So I'm not sure why some people are so bitter about it.

Again, my solution to this would be to extend the window to 5 years, but I'm not sure you'd be able to get the NHLPA to agree to that.

[VladtheImpaler]

So bitter because Hanifin and Lindholm dont begin to make up for having a Norris Trophy winner on an ELC. When we don't have a single defenseman capable (so far) of producing offense or running the PP. So, yeah, bitter.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Once is all it takes when you lose a 22 year old Norris winner because he gets to bend the rules to his whim.

Does a player bend the rules by becoming a UFA and forcing teams to bid for his services?

When you follow the rules to the letter, that's not bening. And it's not like an unintended consequence, what Fox did was excatxly what was contemplated if a player wanted to go that route.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Again, my solution to this would be to extend the window to 5 years, but I'm not sure you'd be able to get the NHLPA to agree to that.

NCAA players should absolutely have an extended rights window, or if a team offers the appropriate qualifying offer at the end of 4 years, they should not have the option to chose another club.

Also, don't players drafted out of Europe have a much larger window because of their preference to develop in Europe?

[dammage79]

Yikes. I can't fathom being bitter about the Lindholm trade. We'd have lost Fox for nothing. Carolina lost fox, Hamilton and Freland. What do they have left from the trade? Jamie Rees and Antoni Honka and Noel Gunler. Seems like we know who got the raw end of the deal. I'd be way more bitter as a Canes fan than a Flames fan who have two very young and extremely good players still from that trade.

Screw Adam Fox but also thank you Adam Fox.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by RM14

Also, don't players drafted out of Europe have a much larger window because of their preference to develop in Europe?

European players who aren't playing the KHL have the same 4 year window as college players. European players can become UFAs on June 1, 4 years after their draft instead of waiting until August 15 like college players.

Draft rights for KHL players have no expiration because there is no transfer agreement between the two leagues, so they're in limbo as far as the NHL is concerned as long as they play in Russia.

[dammage79]

Also it's Allan Fux now. Because why break with tradition.

[Manhattanboy]

This is a long thread.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Once is all it takes when you lose a 22 year old Norris winner because he gets to bend thw rules to his whim.

Well, he didn't even play 4 years, he got traded twice because he wasn't signing so what would changing the rules do to account for guys like Fox?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

So bitter because Hanifin and Lindholm dont begin to make up for having a Norris Trophy winner on an ELC. When we don't have a single defenseman capable (so far) of producing offense or running the PP. So, yeah, bitter.

I disagree on that one. Lindholm and Hanifin are probably in our top 5 in terms of value and they are both young. For one player? I’d make that trade any day.