Climate change and human responsibility

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Azure

Cause the world is rapidly shifting towards EVs. We'll look pretty smart with the trillions we spent on public transit and not on nuclear energy, etc, etc once everyone is actually driving a zero emissions vehicle.

There is currently no such thing as a zero emission vehicle technically. According to this article it takes driving 30,000 miles to get to even with a tesla vs a rav 4 in co2 production.

How many people simply trade-in or end their lease at this point?

Point being, ev's aren't going to save the planet.

https://www.wsj.com/graphics/are-ele...e-environment/

[zamler]

Originally Posted by chedder

There is currently no such thing as a zero emission vehicle technically. According to this article it takes driving 30,000 miles to get to even with a tesla vs a rav 4 in co2 production.

How many people simply trade-in or end their lease at this point?

Point being, ev's aren't going to save the planet.

https://www.wsj.com/graphics/are-ele...e-environment/

Average vehicle life is about 200,000 miles so EV easily wins.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by zamler

Average vehicle life is about 200,000 miles so EV easily wins.

I know it wins over lifetime. And someone will drive the used ones. Just saying it's no panacea for climate change.

Add in the infrastructure that needs to be built and I don't believe the effects on our planet will be drastically better.

[Wormius]

I think a concern is, who wants a used EV until battery replacement issues are ironed out?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I think a concern is, who wants a used EV until battery replacement issues are ironed out?

Which issues? Tesla's have pretty good lifespans:


https://www.findmyelectric.com/blog/...-battery-last/


The Nissan Leaf had issues because it didn't have cooling and cooked the cells. I think all new EV's have that sorted. A bigger issue is EOL recycling at the massive scale that will be needed.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Which issues? Tesla's have pretty good lifespans:


https://www.findmyelectric.com/blog/...-battery-last/


The Nissan Leaf had issues because it didn't have cooling and cooked the cells. I think all new EV's have that sorted. A bigger issue is EOL recycling at the massive scale that will be needed.

My understanding was that it costs roughly half the price of the vehicle to get batteries replaced on a Tesla after warranty.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Wormius

My understanding was that it costs roughly half the price of the vehicle to get batteries replaced on a Tesla after warranty.

Yes, they are expensive, I'm just not sure how common it is to need it. I believe it's in the $15 000 USD range.

[bossy22]

My buddy replaced the original battery in his roadster for $12000. That was 4 years ago.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by bossy22

My buddy replaced the original battery in his roadster for $12000. That was 4 years ago.

Any idea how many km he got out of it?

[zamler]

I know someone that had their Highlander engine blow up (oil line failed) a new engine is $20,000. That is not typical and not a data point to be used when talking about average cost of ownership.

[bossy22]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Any idea how many km he got out of it?

no idea. I don't think it was very much. He has had other Tesla's as the family car. Right now it's a Model X. This is his fun car. I'm pretty sure he upgraded to a larger battery as well.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by chedder

There is currently no such thing as a zero emission vehicle technically. According to this article it takes driving 30,000 miles to get to even with a tesla vs a rav 4 in co2 production.

How many people simply trade-in or end their lease at this point?

Point being, ev's aren't going to save the planet.

https://www.wsj.com/graphics/are-ele...e-environment/

Over time, Tesla & others will bring the emissions being used to manufacture ZEVs further down. Which is far easier to do than taking cars off the road.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Yes, they are expensive, I'm just not sure how common it is to need it. I believe it's in the $15 000 USD range.

I don't think the cost matters simply because they are rather reliable as over time every EV manufacturer will make more and reliable batteries.

What matters is that they are properly recycled. Which, according to Tesla they are. Not sure about the rest, but it seems an easily solved problem.

[FlamesAddiction]

Everybody buying EVs makes me laugh. Have you seen the best load of the average Canadian, and now they want them to buy brand. On top of carbon taxes?

[81MC]

I’m not worried about EV battery recycling. The economics will move industry, just as we see with current batteries(95% apparently).

It’s the rest of the car I’m worried about, and right to repair. With such electronics heavy, systems integrates vehicles, the ability to maintain and repair non-mechanical components is questionable. It’s one thing to be able to source tie rods and wheel bearings when the vehicle is 20 years old, but it’ll be another to source any of the electronics needed to make the vehicle actually useable.

My faith in the market to provide long term support for these units is next to zero. Already, try calling calling Tesla and purchasing parts. Right to repair is thankfully gaining traction stateside, and it’s importance as we move to technological marvels on wheels is crucial to reducing the waste if a buy and trash market.

[Azure]

Right to repair is a massive issue, and not just with cars.

Definitely something to be concerned about, and strange that it isn't more widely known about.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Everybody buying EVs makes me laugh. Have you seen the best load of the average Canadian, and now they want them to buy brand. On top of carbon taxes?

I know all of these words, I just don't understand what you are saying.

[FlamesAddiction]

Yeah sorry, was on not completely lucid when I wrote that.

I meant to say that with all the debt that the average Canadian has, expecting them to buy brand new EV cars by raising energy prices to make gasoline cars punitive to use is ridiculous and really out of touch with the average Canadian's financial situation.

You hear stuff like this from the Liberal side all the time. Make it financially punitive to use fossil fuels so that people switch to electric. It's just not economically possible for most average people.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yeah sorry, was on not completely lucid when I wrote that.

I meant to say that with all the debt that the average Canadian has, expecting them to buy brand new EV cars by raising energy prices to make gasoline cars punitive to use is ridiculous and really out of touch with the average Canadian's financial situation.

You hear stuff like this from the Liberal side all the time. Make it financially punitive to use fossil fuels so that people switch to electric. It's just not economically possible for most average people.

Well, everybody having their own car is probably something we need to get rid of anyway if we want to have a planet to live on, and really the best way to do that is to bring up the cost of owning and operating a car to better reflect their ecological impact. Which will mean much fewer people can afford their own car.

Obviously that's not something anyone in power wants to talk about.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yeah sorry, was on not completely lucid when I wrote that.

I meant to say that with all the debt that the average Canadian has, expecting them to buy brand new EV cars by raising energy prices to make gasoline cars punitive to use is ridiculous and really out of touch with the average Canadian's financial situation.

You hear stuff like this from the Liberal side all the time. Make it financially punitive to use fossil fuels so that people switch to electric. It's just not economically possible for most average people.

They are/will offer up incentives for EV cars as well. Carrots and sticks will be used to drive up EV usage.