Seven Days in Kabul - Page 14 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Fuzz · 08-17-2021, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slava

Alright, let's just pretend that you can organize and move that number of people (I still have my doubts). Where are we moving them? I look at the map around Afghanistan and I'm pretty sure that China/Iran/Pakistan aren't opening their borders to help these people out. So that means coming to North American or Europe.

I don't think that pointing to our immigration number is a good comparison here either. Those immigrants have to meet certain criteria and what we're really talking about here is refugees. I'd say we could accept 10-15,000 (and remember the uproar when we did that in 2015?). so you still have to settle say 135,000 people somewhere.

Australia, man. Australia.

Azure · 08-17-2021, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slava

Alright, let's just pretend that you can organize and move that number of people (I still have my doubts). Where are we moving them? I look at the map around Afghanistan and I'm pretty sure that China/Iran/Pakistan aren't opening their borders to help these people out. So that means coming to North American or Europe.

I don't think that pointing to our immigration number is a good comparison here either. Those immigrants have to meet certain criteria and what we're really talking about here is refugees. I'd say we could accept 10-15,000 (and remember the uproar when we did that in 2015?). so you still have to settle say 135,000 people somewhere.

The US evacuated an estimated 125k people out of Vietnam in 1975. 50+ years later, one would think it would be easier.

Canada isn't a big country. But between every country that worked in Afghanistan and had the Afghans help them, 150k isn't that much.

The issue here isn't whether we could help them or not, but that we didn't even try.

undercoverbrother · 08-17-2021, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

The US evacuated an estimated 125k people out of Vietnam in 1975. 50+ years later, one would think it would be easier.

.

I'm not doubting you, but where do you get that number?

Hemi-Cuda · 08-17-2021, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Wow, what a c-word.

There's actually a strong possibility that Lauren Boebert is just a far-right plant who is getting paid to be as extreme as possible

https://mobile.twitter.com/chadloder...13663055486977

CroFlames · 08-17-2021, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

There won't be a next time unless something happens to a Nato partner or a terrorist attack the in US. People wanted this over.

Marcus Aurelius said it best

holden · 08-17-2021, 02:11 PM

Spoiler!

Traded in the ole Toyota

Fuzz · 08-17-2021, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

Spoiler!

Traded in the ole Toyota

How is it those things don't have a remote activated de-mobilizer? Surly we have the technology to make them useless. It's not like this is the first time the US has handed over items of war. Do they just think "nah, that'll never happen again, we don't need that feature."?

CroFlames · 08-17-2021, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzz

How is it those things don't have a remote activated de-mobilizer? Surly we have the technology to make them useless. It's not like this is the first time the US has handed over items of war. Do they just think "nah, that'll never happen again, we don't need that feature."?

What makes you think the US wants those things inoperable? I think the Russians left all their guns there just in case the Americans invaded. Americans left their guns there in case China invades.

burn_this_city · 08-17-2021, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzz

How is it those things don't have a remote activated de-mobilizer? Surly we have the technology to make them useless. It's not like this is the first time the US has handed over items of war. Do they just think "nah, that'll never happen again, we don't need that feature."?

I think the belief is someone else would figure out how to deactivate your army remotely.

Without parts those won't run forever, they are Duramax engines and while super reliable, need parts and probably better fuel quality than the Taliban will be able to provide.

Azure · 08-17-2021, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I'm not doubting you, but where do you get that number?

Quote:

Large-scale immigration from Vietnam to the United States began at the end of the Vietnam War, when the fall of Saigon in 1975 led to the U.S.-sponsored evacuation of an estimated 125,000 Vietnamese refugees.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/arti...nited-states-5

zamler · 08-17-2021, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slava

Come on. I'm 100% of the belief that this is an epic tragedy and absolutely shameful.

Bu there is no way that you can say moving 150,000 people out is something that we could easily do though. That's just pure hindsight bias, or just plain wrong.

Hindsight bias? I completely reject this argument, get as many people out as possible FIRST not pull the plug without any regard or thought for the people that got left behind.

Slava · 08-17-2021, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamler

Hindsight bias? I completely reject this argument, get as many people out as possible FIRST not pull the plug without any regard or thought for the people that got left behind.

Sure, that would have been ideal. But things deteriorated pretty quickly and frankly Canada wasn’t in a position to just hold it together on their own. Once the US made the decision that they were done there, the other allies were basically along for the ride.

FlameOn · 08-17-2021, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slava

Sure, that would have been ideal. But things deteriorated pretty quickly and frankly Canada wasn’t in a position to just hold it together on their own. Once the US made the decision that they were done there, the other allies were basically along for the ride.

Things got bad fast and the Liberals were too busy prepping for and calling the election when the crap hit the fan, now they're at the back of the line for evac through Kabul airport if they want to get ppl out.

Baron von Kriterium · 08-17-2021, 04:07 PM

Apparently there are between 5000-10,000 Americans scattered throughout Afghanistan, cut-off from the airport in Kabul and there aren't any plans, according to Biden spox John Kirby, to get them to the airport.

Here is what is unspoken and I will say so now because no one else is: The conditions are set right now for the Kabul airport to be a 2021 replay of the last stand of Gandamak, but with the USMC & 82nd Airborne playing the role of the 44th (East Essex) Regiment of Foot.

It's the Taliban's call.

Meanwhile, it looks as though a number of ISAF Coalition members have taken far too long & shown too much lethargy. It may soon be too late:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1427738932331130886

undercoverbrother · 08-17-2021, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/arti...nited-states-5

Ah I see, sorry.

The number moved by air, was 60,000ish thousand, the rest by sea.

A landlocked Afghanistan is a different story IMO.

undercoverbrother · 08-17-2021, 04:27 PM

I don't know if this has been posted, but that trigger and muzzle discipline looks familiar.

PeteMoss · 08-17-2021, 04:37 PM

The departure was obviously botched and right in our faces, but the US military really seems to be getting off easy in coverage.

They spent 20 years and God knows how much money over there training a military and it gets overrun in 10 minutes after leave.

CliffFletcher · 08-17-2021, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron von Kriterium

The conditions are set right now for the Kabul airport to be a 2021 replay of the last stand of Gandamak, but with the USMC & 82nd Airborne playing the role of the 44th (East Essex) Regiment of Foot.

Where’s Flashman when you need him.

curves2000 · 08-17-2021, 04:47 PM

The political ramifications and the infighting with wealthy countries are what is going to be fascinating, especially within Europe.

Since 2015 certain countries like Greece, Italy, Spain and others have shouldered a disproportionate burden of the refugee crisis than other countries in the EU block. That should not and will not be the case going forward and how that all plays out will be interesting. Everybody talks about compassion, communication, compromise, resettlement and doing the right thing but very few actually do it.

I don't know what the future holds and how the world looks in the next 20 years but we can't continue to have what has happened, continue.

Looch City · 08-17-2021, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The departure was obviously botched and right in our faces, but the US military really seems to be getting off easy in coverage.

They spent 20 years and God knows how much money over there training a military and it gets overrun in 10 minutes after leave.

Yeah I'm still trying to comprehend WHY this was such a big surprise. Was it a masterful troll job by the Afghani army? Someone lied big time? No one at all could see this coming after spending 20 years with these people and faction leaders?

I'm betting it was a massive breakdown of communication and getting the word up the chain. And by the time the US leaders knew, it was way too late.