Seven Days in Kabul

[monkeyman]

^ RE: Aisha Ahmad
That's absolutely heartbreaking. As much as I'd like to believe it'll end differently, the Taliban being true to their word on anything is unlikely.
This is an absolute failure by the western governments who with all of their virtue signalling have chosen to take the politically easy way out instead of doing the right thing.

[CaptainCrunch]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1426996544067313664

https://twitter.com/user/status/1427007845564825607


This could have a similar effect to Trudeau as the drowning of Alan Kurdi had on Harper's campaign when his opponents made hay with his death to attack Harper and make him look heartless.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Alan_Kurdi


The difference is that in the case of poor Alan Kurdi, there was no immigration application for him, The NDP lied about handing a letter to the Conservatives to investigate why his immigration application had been denied, there was no application, there was one for his uncle but not the boy.

The death of Kurdi and reports that his family had been trying to ultimately reach Canada had an immediate impact on domestic Canadian politics. Prime Minister and leader of the Conservative Party Stephen Harper cancelled a photo opportunity and addressed the issue in a campaign event, saying,

Canadian Citizenship and Immigration Minister Chris Alexander announced he would be temporarily suspending his campaigning in the 2015 Canadian federal election to return to Ottawa to resume his ministerial duties and investigate the case of Alan Kurdi, whose uncle's application for refugee status had been rejected by his ministry.[44] Leader of the Opposition and NDP leader Thomas Mulcair said that "Chris Alexander has a lot to answer for, but that's not where we are right now. We're worried about how we got here, how the collective international response has been so defective, how Canada has failed so completely." NDP MP Fin Donnelly was accused of using the tragic event as a means to garner votes, because he initially told reporters that he had personally handed a letter to Immigration Minister Chris Alexander urging the minister to look at the refugee application of Alan Kurdi's family, but that Canadian immigration authorities denied the family's application.[45][46] However, later the aunt of Alan Kurdi revealed that the application was made only for Kurdi's uncle and was rejected because it was not complete.[47] Meanwhile, the Citizenship and Immigration Canada office clarified that they had not received the proper documentation to certify refugee status for the uncle's family.[3][20][48] Mulcair later defended Donnelly, saying that no apology was warranted because the letter had mentioned both families, and stated that he "couldn't be prouder to have someone of the strength, integrity and hard work as Fin Donnelly" in caucus.[49]
Liberal leader Justin Trudeau said that "you don't get to suddenly discover compassion in the middle of an election campaign" and that "All different stripes of governments in Canada have stepped up in times of crisis to accept people fleeing for their lives", he said. "Canadians get it. This is about doing the right thing, about living up to the values that we cherish as a country."[50] Trudeau also reiterated the Liberal promise made several months before the election to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees.[50]




Green Party leader Elizabeth May criticized Stephen Harper's response to the crisis, noting the difficulty of sponsoring a refugee in Canada. On the Green Party website, May accused the government of lacking credibility on the issue, "having failed to honour previous [refugee] announcements".[51]

In this case, the Liberal's handled this terrible, dragged their feet on it, and now it looks like these people are possibly not get out with out a major military intervention. I don't think Justin is going to be able to dodge questions around this situation without looking incredibly bad.



As far as what can we do? Short of sending in troops, and aircraft, and securing the airfield and going in company to rescue and escort these poor people back, there's nothing that we can do anymore. That opportunity passed us by, and its likely that these people are already dead. They just haven't been executed yet.


We broke the faith with these people, and that's on our government.

[nik-]

I wonder if this also forces a reckoning in the US government regarding the status of Pakistan as an ally.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1427206269450981378

[Nyah]

This is a pretty scathing, upsetting article from The Atlantic.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1426983203458281472

[rbochan]

Shut down the pipeline, destroying tens of thousands of US jobs and destroying its energy independence, meanwhile sending funds to the middle east for oil and guess what happens?

Such brilliant planning and leadership.

Thanks Uncle Joe! You ####ing dip####.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Well, some good news. Apparently the crew of a USAF C-17 crammed 800 souls into the plane.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1427038833195950080


It's possible, I suppose. There are 670 in this pic from an evac in the Philippines.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

This was the inevitable end-game 20 years ago when we went in.

I remember watching the news on post- 9/11 and seeing the operations begin into Afghanistan. At the time, many were saying that this would end up in a long wasteful exercise that would result in the same status for afghanistan that it has had for thousands of years. I didn't think it would take 20 years, but here we are.

For what its worth, Afghanistan was a secluded, relatively stable and peaceful state (albeit poor) until the late 1970s when it became a pawn in the Great Game. Since then, its been 50 years of basically uninterrupted war, chaos and misery.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by rbochan

Shut down the pipeline, destroying tens of thousands of US jobs and destroying its energy independence, meanwhile sending funds to the middle east for oil and guess what happens?

Such brilliant planning and leadership.

Thanks Uncle Joe! You ####ing dip####.

Afghanistan is not in the middle east and does not produce significant amounts of oil or natural gas.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

https://twitter.com/user/status/1427007845564825607

Aside from Biden's completely the lack of foresight on how fast the corrupt Afghan government would collapse which is Biden's or US military leadership's fault, the terms of the withdrawal treaty and pullout of Western personnel on the ground is on the GOP and Trump. They are already updating and removing all their statements praising Trump for the withdrawal decision in preparation for the gaslighting.
https://www.newsweek.com/gop-removes...mpression=true

Pompeo himself getting roasted by Fox News on this. It has all of the relevant clips with Pompeo, GOP, and Trump boasting about the withdrawal treaty. https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-ho...drawal-1619498

Lets be a little fair on where the blame lies for each issue.

[CroFlames]

Almost at a loss for words. The inept leadership in the west is disgusting. So many will die, and I think many will be tortured by the Taliban as an example to the rest.

So many Afghanis placed their loyalty in trust in the West, and then we just left.

Good for the one crew who had some humanity who evacuated 800 people on their C-17.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Aside from Biden's completely the lack of foresight on how fast the corrupt Afghan government would collapsed which is Biden's fault, the terms of the withdrawal treaty and pullout of Western personnel on the ground is entirely on the GOP and Trump. They are already updating and removing all their statements praising Trump for the withdrawal decision in preparation for the gaslighting.

Pompeo himself getting roasted by Fox News on this. It has all of the relevant clips with Pompeo, GOP, and Trump boasting about the withdrawal treaty. https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-ho...drawal-1619498

Lets be a little fair on where the blame lies for each issue.

Trump treaty for withdrawl was for May, so the GOP cannot act like their hands are clean on this either.

That being said, there is no question that Biden, and a bunch of western nations botched this...While this is a massive intelligence failure, the buck stops at the president.

The biggest question for me is whether anything was done between May and now to prepare for this withdraw ... from the face of it, it does not seem like it...

As mentioned, there was a small force of advisors in Afghanistan, not that different than what still exists in Iraq...whether having them remain and thereby breaking that treaty with Taliban would have been worth it, is a fair question to ask.

Regardless, the scenes at the airport make me sick...Hopefully, they can do something to help these people.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Trump treaty for withdrawl was for May, so the GOP cannot act like their hands are clean on this either.

That being said, there is no question that Biden, and a bunch of western nations botched this...While this is a massive intelligence failure, the buck stops at the president.

The biggest question for me is whether anything was done between May and now to prepare for this withdraw ... from the face of it, it does not seem like it...

As mentioned, there was a small force of advisors in Afghanistan, not that different than what still exists in Iraq...whether having them remain and thereby breaking that treaty with Taliban would have been worth it, is a fair question to ask.

Regardless, the scenes at the airport make me sick...Hopefully, they can do something to help these people.

For sure but most Western intelligence reports were saying the Afghan government wouldn't last the year once US troops pulled out. Just turns out Afghan military units weren't going to fight to the last man and slowly die just so Western interests could pulled out their remaining assets when Trump hobbled all of their support in the treaty.

Breaking the treaty would likely have required a large scale redeployment of US troops again, not sure Biden could have sold that to Congress. It wouldn't have made a difference anyway in the long run, other than a more orderly evacuation of allies on the ground.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

For sure but most Western intelligence reports were saying the Afghan government wouldn't last the year once US troops pulled out. Just turns out Afghan military units weren't going to fight to the last man and slowly die just so Western interests could pulled out their remaining assets when Trump hobbled all of their support in the treaty.

Breaking the treaty would likely have required a large scale redeployment of US troops again, not sure Biden could have sold that to Congress. It wouldn't have made a difference anyway in the long run, other than a more orderly evacuation of allies on the ground.

Agreed... There would have been negative consequences if they broke that treaty as well, so I don't think that would have been viable either...

Reminds me of the Tsunami in Japan, watching it unfold, you knew that was going to be a massive tragedy unfolding before your eyes....

Just horrible to watch it happening before our eyes...

[MillerTime GFG]

Thought I'd share a post from my brother this morning, who served twice in Afghanistan right after 9/11, but his second tour cut short when he was severely injured in Operation Medusa:

Time was not wasted. 20 years of a taste of civilization. 20 years of girls growing up with some sort of dreams of equality. Some of those girls are adults now. They'll secretly tell their daughters about the time they were free and educated. One day it will come back again, just not today, and not because we (soldiers) didn't try. Politicians that can only see as far as the next election cycle lost this one."

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Firebot

https://twitter.com/user/status/1426761407232712705

I stumbled upon this Afghan girl's twitter asking for asylum from Canada and stranded and her current ordeal.

A follow up from this, she's closed her twitter account out of safety due to very serious threats.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1427201828840787971

She has a video that I won't link here, of people falling off of planes in the air...NSFL.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Firebot

A follow up from this, she's closed her twitter account out of safety due to very serious threats.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1427201828840787971

She has a video that I won't link here, of people falling off of planes in the air...NSFL.

I saw that video and all I can say is it's horrific. I can only imagine the pure desperation that people are feeling to take those kinds of risks.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Cliche

Say hello to the current Afghani leadership. From a reddit thread about Taliban in the presidential palace.

Well at least they have good trigger discipline

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Well at least they have good trigger discipline

Well the Americans under Reagan did train the Taliban how to fight after all.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Trump treaty for withdrawl was for May, so the GOP cannot act like their hands are clean on this either.

That being said, there is no question that Biden, and a bunch of western nations botched this...While this is a massive intelligence failure, the buck stops at the president.

The biggest question for me is whether anything was done between May and now to prepare for this withdraw ... from the face of it, it does not seem like it...

As mentioned, there was a small force of advisors in Afghanistan, not that different than what still exists in Iraq...whether having them remain and thereby breaking that treaty with Taliban would have been worth it, is a fair question to ask.

Regardless, the scenes at the airport make me sick...Hopefully, they can do something to help these people.

The preparation was that they probably thought that people would stay and strengthen Afghanistan against the Taliban. The workers who had helped Americans would be the key to solidifying a US-less Afghanistan. Build on the last 20 years. I don't think any one in the West could have predicted that the Afghan Military would surrender within hours/days.