Seven Days in Kabul

[MegaErtz]

Nazi collaborators during World War II were the scum of society after the war ended. I'm not sure why we here in North America would imagine the average Afghan would feel any differently about people who worked as interpreters for the Canadian military.

[VladtheImpaler]

I just happen to have finished reading Col. Hackworth's 'About Face', and it just seems the exact same scenario has played out here as in Vietnam. Corrupt, venal locals, entirely unwilling and incapable of fighting without US forces and US air power. Population that is at best ambivalent about which side is worse. Americans fighting the wrong war and using the wrong tactics again, outside of SF... Really, should have just got in with SF and killed all the bad guys, and got out. There is no country here to reform or rebuild. Just needs to be fenced in...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Baron von Kriterium

https://twitter.com/user/status/1426932958561198088

https://twitter.com/user/status/1426934298213593090

https://twitter.com/user/status/1426928943827808256

Yup this was an utter failure. The Government did ####, got shamed by the Vets who spent their money getting these people out. Then the government said "We got this" made it even worse. We flew out a few plane loads of embassy staff, and the government sent out bragging pictures.



These people are going to die and in mass numbers and their family members are going to due. and we dragged our feet for years. Its disgraceful.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Nazi collaborators during World War II were the scum of society after the war ended. I'm not sure why we here in North America would imagine the average Afghan would feel any differently about people who worked as interpreters for the Canadian military.

I think you've got it backwards here in a way.



The average person that was pulled out from the brutal yoke of the Taliban had no trouble with the so called collaborators. Its more along the line, that the people that collaborated whith the Taliban when they were pushed out, don't like Canadian collaborators.



Average people for the most part are terrified of the Taliban return, and not looking forward to the murder frenzy that's coming.

[CaptainCrunch]

Don Martin said it best

https://twitter.com/user/status/1426933189243719681

[GirlySports]

This is exactly like Saigon from April 26-30, 1975. Just waiting, and waiting.

[fulham]

Is it fair to say that Taliban rule is the will of the people? Seems like there is no real pushback by the masses.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by fulham

Is it fair to say that Taliban rule is the will of the people? Seems like there is no real pushback by the masses.

Hard for any of us to say, but I'd be hard pressed to blame them for simply resigning in the face of an unfettered resurgance of the Taliban, they know the fighting would be incessant were they to stand up to them, and they've already been effectively abandoned by the west much as they all presumably feared since the coalition began it's ill fated occupation

Enduring Freedom indeed

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by fulham

Is it fair to say that Taliban rule is the will of the people? Seems like there is no real pushback by the masses.

Maybe it is, and if thats the case then maybe leaving is the right choice.

But even if you accept that, I don't think leaving the people who helped Canadians behind to be slaughtered with/in front of their children is the right choice.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

This is exactly like Saigon from April 26-30, 1975. Just waiting, and waiting.

well with the obvious exception that the Vietnamese Communist Party while not a paragon of morality didnt execute tens to hundreds of thousands of non communists when they took over despite the bull#### the CIA promoted to start the war in the '50's where as the Taliban probably will

[burn_this_city]

I would expect Europe will see a huge wave of refugees from this. Hopefully most of the people that helped the west can escape and apply for refugee status somewhere safer. America and the West cut and run again, I don't understand why they didn't have a list of all the people and their families that needed to be taken and moved them months ago.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I would expect Europe will see a huge wave of refugees from this. Hopefully most of the people that helped the west can escape and apply for refugee status somewhere safer. America and the West cut and run again, I don't understand why they didn't have a list of all the people and their families that needed to be taken and moved them months ago.

well in the wests defence no one predicted the country would fall in a week or two, I suspect 'we' thought we had a couple of years to get 'our' people out.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I would expect Europe will see a huge wave of refugees from this. Hopefully most of the people that helped the west can escape and apply for refugee status somewhere safer. America and the West cut and run again, I don't understand why they didn't have a list of all the people and their families that needed to be taken and moved them months ago.

Its the government way, don't do anything until the last couple of minutes, then do some photo ops.


We're going to see photo's the Taliban isn't going to make the execution of these people and their families especially private.



We're going to get our failure rammed in our face.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I would expect Europe will see a huge wave of refugees from this. Hopefully most of the people that helped the west can escape and apply for refugee status somewhere safer. America and the West cut and run again, I don't understand why they didn't have a list of all the people and their families that needed to be taken and moved them months ago.

It really is quite baffling.

They knew this was going to happen and they knew it was coming.

So either they are beyond delusional or they just dont care.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

well in the wests defence no one predicted the country would fall in a week or two, I suspect 'we' thought we had a couple of years to get 'our' people out.

Veterans who have been screaming about this for a long time and spending their own money for a long time.



When the collapse happens in countries like this its extremely fast.


Our response, here's a web portal with overly complex forms to fill in for people on the run in a countries with next to no technology. The Minister in charge and the senior servant should have been fired for that plan and pretending that it would solve anything.

[Locke]

When do they fly the "Mission Accomplished" banner?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Veterans who have been screaming about this for a long time and spending their own money for a long time.



When the collapse happens in countries like this its extremely fast.


Our response, here's a web portal with overly complex forms to fill in for people on the run in a countries with next to no technology. The Minister in charge and the senior servant should have been fired for that plan and pretending that it would solve anything.

I think the Vietnam timeline was the one they were hoping for, while Vietnam fell fast when the NVA mounted a full scale offensive it was still two years after the US left the country before the essentially modern western style NVA was able to mount the push, of course once again the US military cant conceive of a military force that doesnt need a logistics chain, fuel, air support and armour, they should have just asked the question 'how long does it take to drive a Toyota pick up from Peshawar to Kabul?, that's about how long we have'

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think the Vietnam timeline was the one they were hoping for, while Vietnam fell fast when the NVA mounted a full scale offensive it was still two years after the US left the country before the essentially modern western style NVA was able to mount the push, of course once again the US military cant conceive of a military force that doesnt need a logistics chain, fuel, air support and armour, they should have just asked the question 'how long does it take to drive a Toyota pick up from Peshawar to Kabul?, that's about how long we have'

If anyone was basing their estimates on Vietnam, they were fracking insane. We saw this before with the Talliban and the Soviet Union and how fast the Taliban moved to seize power there.


Why someone didn't go into the history books and say, hey fellas, here's what happened when the Russian's drove over the bridge.


I'm not bragging, but I was talking to a friend today about it and he reminded me that I predicted this kind of collapse would happen at high speed when the allies left, and that's why I said earlier, the exit shouldn't have happened. The problem as well is Pakistan and their influence with the Taliban.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think the Vietnam timeline was the one they were hoping for, while Vietnam fell fast when the NVA mounted a full scale offensive it was still two years after the US left the country before the essentially modern western style NVA was able to mount the push, of course once again the US military cant conceive of a military force that doesnt need a logistics chain, fuel, air support and armour, they should have just asked the question 'how long does it take to drive a Toyota pick up from Peshawar to Kabul?, that's about how long we have'

They had all the time in the world to sort this out before the boots were off the ground....what were they doing with it?

People are going to die because of this.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by Locke

They had all the time in the world to sort this out before the boots were off the ground....what were they doing with it?

People are going to die because of this.

100%. Everyone involved with command deserves a dishonorable discharge for this