Brad Treliving needs to go

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Lindros.

He is the best example of what you are saying - pay whatever it takes - and it was a disaster.

Eric Lindros is literally a Hall of Fame player, and not for anything he did after he left Philadelphia.

He has an Art Ross, a Hart, and a Pearson. He was the captain of the 1998 Olympic team (undeserving before Gretzky, but whatever - dude wore the letter).

Scott Stevens scrambled his brain.

The Flyers went to a Cup final with Lindros, and won six playoff rounds between 1994 and 1997.

Like, sign me up for that.

[dammage79]

Imo, there was never going to be a replacement for Gio. Just a natural cycle through. Expansion just kind of kicked things off a year earlier than planned I think. Even if expansion didn't happen, Gios time would be reduced and priority would go towards guys like Hanifin and Andersson.

Fact we have Tanev and Zadorov to kind of split gios duties is good enough for me.

[VladtheImpaler]

How do Tanev and Zadorov split Gio's duties??? They should be good neutralizers, but provide zero offense.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

How do Tanev and Zadorov split Gio's duties??? They should be good neutralizers, but provide zero offense.

Rasmus Andersson

He got prepaid, might as well step up and do something useful

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

No but thinking this core can win is not a good approach neither

This core can’t win. Obviously.

But could this core win if you upgraded Monahan to Eichel?

I think most people are completely tolerant of the idea of a rebuild. If they came out tomorrow and traded Johnny, Tkachuk, Monahan and Lindholm for futures, I’d be fine with it. It’s a direction to go in.

They aren’t going to do that. Right or wrong, they aren’t. So if they aren’t, they should put their best foot forward and recognize that teenagers are not going to help them. Grown men are.

[djsFlames]

Gio was not as good the last two seasons as people seem to think.

He ate up a lot of minutes and didn't make you hate him while he did it, but he didn't make a lot of positive difference during those shifts.

We think he's really hard to replace because of the role and minutes he ate for us and the reputation he bult over his better seasons. But I think collectively some other younger skilled guys could do more with it, after an adjustment period.

Gio became steady but very unspectacular of late. I don't think it will be such a collossal feat to replace him, but it won't be done through one guy. Will have to be by committee.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Gio was not as good the last two seasons as people seem to think.

He ate up a lot of minutes and didn't make you hate him while he did it, but he didn't make a lot of positive difference during those shifts.

We think he's really hard to replace because of the role and minutes he ate for us and the reputation he bult over his better seasons. But I think collectively some other younger skilled guys could do more with it, after an adjustment period.

Gio became steady but very unspectacular of late. I don't think it will be such a collossal feat to replace him, but it won't be done through one guy. Will have to be by committee.

I don’t think anyone is under an illusion Gio was an all star or anything. But he was the biggest point producer in the back end on this team, and there doesn’t seem to any LHD about to step up offensively. Unless Hanifin takes a huge step in that direction or Valimaki turns a big corner, of course.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

IMO a major role of the GM is to be able to evaluate coaches and that's an area Treliving has been abysmal. The fact that ownership had to step in and hire Darryl is telling of how much of a failure Treliving has been at evaluating coaches. Pro scouting has also been poor so there's a lot of good and a lot of bad which is a recipe for mediocrity. Too good to be really bad and not good enough to challenge for a cup. He's got to stop with the big mistakes and keep building the team through the draft which is why I kind of hope the Flames don't trade for Eichel as I'm just not sure if he on his own is better than Zary, Pelletier, Monahan and a 1st round pick.

Show us the evidence.

This makes no sense whatsoever. I said this at the time of the hire; if the owners stepped in and hired Treliving, why is he still the GM? One logical reason, please? I don’t doubt the owners were consulted and probably even had conversations with Sutter directly, but to suggest the decision was taken out of Treliving’s hands Is a dubious one at the time of the hire. Now that Treliving is still the GM, after the conclusion of the season, after the draft, and after free agency, extremely unlikely that Treliving and the owners weren’t in lock step on this decision.

I also keep coming back to Friedman’s comment that yge Flames had been talking to Sutter since Peters departure. Treliving gets pinned to the wall for the Ward ‘hiring’ but I suspect the Flames wanted Sutter all along and bided their time. Ward was nothing more than a stop gap. This would explain his two year deal, and likely low end HC salary.

Posters who refuse to accept Treliving had much to do with the Sutter hire are hugely misguided.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t think anyone is under an illusion Gio was an all star or anything. But he was the biggest point producer in the back end on this team, and there doesn’t seem to any LHD about to step up offensively. Unless Hanifin takes a huge step in that direction or Valimaki turns a big corner, of course.

I think this is the best the Flames can hope for, but I don't believe it is a stretch to expect it will happen, either.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Eric Lindros is literally a Hall of Fame player, and not for anything he did after he left Philadelphia.

Peter Forsberg is literally a Hall of Fame player as well, and the Flyers threw in five other roster players, two first-round picks, and $15 million in cash.

Stanley Cups for Forsberg: 2. Lindros: 0.

You cannot argue that Philadelphia won that trade.

No matter how good any one player is, there is always a price that is too high to pay.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by kehatch

That is absurdly untrue. When Treliving started:

• The Flames hadn't made the playoffs in 5 seasons. Since his arrival we have made the playoffs 4 of 7 times and won the regular season conference once.
• The prospect pool included two guys drafted top 6 (Monahan, Bennett) and Gaudreau. CP was rioting over the utilization of Baertshi. The rest of the pool was in shambles despite us being at the end of a rebuild. Since then, Treliving has found Andersson, Kylington, Mangiapane, Dube, Fox, etc outside of the first round. He added Valimaki and Tkachuk with his first round picks. He has also quietly developed a strong prospect pool.
• When he took over the roster our top two Cs were Backlund and Stajan. Hudler was our ice time leader. Our most productive line was Cammalleri-Backlund-Byron and our most common line was Cammalleri-Stajan-Stempniak. In addition to locking in our young core for a reasonable cap hit, he also added core players like Lindholm, Hanafin, and Markstrom while surrounding them with good depth players.

I could go on. The team is MUCH better then it was when he took the reigns.

What some are saying is Treliving hasn't been able to take the team to the next level. And that is fair. We have only made it to the second round once with him, and generally we haven't looked good in the playoffs. Some of that is out of Trelivings hands. (Every elite team acquired elite players high up in the draft and we haven't been gifted in the draft lottery. Its great to get Monahan at 6, but MacKinnon went at 1). But he owns some criticism.

It wasn't even close to the end of a rebuild, it was at the very early stages, or at least is should have been. Treliving decided to cut the rebuild short and start trading futures shortly after thinking that he had a solid core in place already. Enough with the excuses, he was handed a pretty clean slate, this is his team.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well, it WAS Forsberg. That's the point (price matters)

As far as Lindros' concussion goes, that also matters - injuries happen, so paying 'anything' for a player comes with risk. And we are talking about Eichel here, so injury risk is much more than an academic debate here.

At the time of the trade Forsberg wasn't a superstar hall of famer though, he was a recent 6th overall pick selected after Scott Lachance and Aaron Ward. He wouldn't even come over to play in the NHL for a couple more years. In hindsight Forsberg turned into a star player but without the benefit of hindsight you do that trade every time.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

IMO a major role of the GM is to be able to evaluate coaches and that's an area Treliving has been abysmal. The fact that ownership had to step in and hire Darryl is telling of how much of a failure Treliving has been at evaluating coaches. Pro scouting has also been poor so there's a lot of good and a lot of bad which is a recipe for mediocrity. Too good to be really bad and not good enough to challenge for a cup. He's got to stop with the big mistakes and keep building the team through the draft which is why I kind of hope the Flames don't trade for Eichel as I'm just not sure if he on his own is better than Zary, Pelletier, Monahan and a 1st round pick.

Don't know if I 100% agree with your telling of history.

I think the Gulutzan thing was a mistake. Peters was a solid coach who had the team in 2nd overall.

The Ward thing is a mystery for me. They said the decision would be done in a couple of weeks and it stretched on and on and on. That could mean Treliving wanted Ward and ownership was hesitant. But it could also mean Treliving didn't want Ward and ownership didn't want the added expense. Additionally Ward was hired officially right after Washington hired Laviolette.

Don't think anything is as cut and dried as you think.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jacks

It wasn't even close to the end of a rebuild, it was at the very early stages, or at least is should have been. Treliving decided to cut the rebuild short and start trading futures shortly after thinking that he had a solid core in place already. Enough with the excuses, he was handed a pretty clean slate, this is his team.

Treliving decided, or the owners decided? Seems to me that a GM who was in year 1 with presumably plenty of slack in the rope would probably want to capitalize on that.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Treliving decided, or the owners decided? Seems to me that a GM who was in year 1 with presumably plenty of slack in the rope would probably want to capitalize on that.

Funny, when someone suggests that ownership may have forced the Sutter hiring, since Treliving had shown a clear pattern of poor coach choices, you chime in with "show us the evidence". Yet when it comes to the construction and direction of the team you blame it on ownership.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Funny, when someone suggests that ownership may have forced the Sutter hiring, since Treliving had shown a clear pattern of poor coach choices, you chime in with "show us the evidence". Yet when it comes to the construction and direction of the team you blame it on ownership.

I have no doubt the owners had some involvement with the Sutter hiring. How couldn’t they given the history? Bear in mind Sutter had retired. What I do take objection to is this absurd notion that the decision was taken out of Treliving’s hands. And if it was, why on earth is he still the GM? Makes no sense, at all. So if there is evidence, I would like to see it. Seems less and less likely as time goes on.

On the other hand, this organization has never willfully entered a rebuild. Not once. The one time they were dragged into it, they got out of it the first instance they could. I suspect that direction came from ownership.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Eric Lindros is literally a Hall of Fame player, and not for anything he did after he left Philadelphia.

He has an Art Ross, a Hart, and a Pearson. He was the captain of the 1998 Olympic team (undeserving before Gretzky, but whatever - dude wore the letter).

Scott Stevens scrambled his brain.

The Flyers went to a Cup final with Lindros, and won six playoff rounds between 1994 and 1997.

Like, sign me up for that.

And the team that traded him away and took the haul, won a couple cups. So.., sign me up for that instead.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jacks

At the time of the trade Forsberg wasn't a superstar hall of famer though, he was a recent 6th overall pick selected after Scott Lachance and Aaron Ward. He wouldn't even come over to play in the NHL for a couple more years. In hindsight Forsberg turned into a star player but without the benefit of hindsight you do that trade every time.

Yeah, we were all there, we know how it played out.

The trade was for futures, as these types of trades usually are. And the futures won the team 2 cups.

There is no argument here that the Flyers won the trade. None.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Funny, when someone suggests that ownership may have forced the Sutter hiring, since Treliving had shown a clear pattern of poor coach choices, you chime in with "show us the evidence". Yet when it comes to the construction and direction of the team you blame it on ownership.

I don't think he placed tbe blame on ownership in his post, only raised the question of how much they were involved. The fact is, we have a woefully incomplete picture of Treliving's tenure as GM. It is premature to either blame him or absolve him of all the mistakes that were made.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And the team that traded him away and took the haul, won a couple cups. So.., sign me up for that instead.

The Colorado Avalanche won two cups because they stole Patrick Roy from Montreal.

Something they wouldn’t have been able to do if they were the Quebec Nordiques.