2021 Blue Jays Season Thread - Page 234 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

soreshins · 08-10-2021, 10:31 PM

Phew. Squeaky bum time there.

flames_fan_down_under · 08-10-2021, 10:31 PM

Jays WIN!

flamingred89 · 08-10-2021, 10:32 PM

Phew. A little bit of a butt pucker there.

And look at that. Even though they lost the first game they still pick up a .5 game on the Sox and Yanks.

Also. I hope that is the last 7 inning ball game I ever have to watch...

Roof-Daddy · 08-10-2021, 10:55 PM

Probably a coincidence but Vlad has been terrible since his day off during the home stand.

And apparently we're back to "key injury of the day" status again?

Mayza, then Bo, now Stripling

Luckily Bo came back right away, but come on
...

Ducay · 08-11-2021, 07:54 AM

Cimber should be the closer instead of Romano | Change my Mind

GreenLantern2814 · 08-11-2021, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducay

Cimber should be the closer instead of Romano | Change my Mind

I don’t like the idea of a Submarine pitcher closing games at first blush, but Cimber has been pretty automatic since he got here.

Romano feels (just feels, based on no statistics whatsoever) more like a Jason Frasor - he might be closing, but he isn’t the closer.

Enoch Root · 08-11-2021, 02:02 PM

Cimber has a role - his style is effective against certain batters. He is a good setup guy.

Romano is a closer - he throws fireballs. Fireballs work on all types of batters. Almost all (effective) closers throw heat. And the reason is that it is effective against all batters.

bluejays · 08-11-2021, 02:31 PM

I get what you’re saying about Romano’s speed, but it doesn’t look like it has much movement. He often gets into trouble, as batters do make contact. I’m not sold on him but perhaps there’s a medium between both splitting the closing depending on who they’re facing. Romano is a work in progress though.

Roof-Daddy · 08-11-2021, 02:35 PM

I think Romano was benefitting from the sticky stiff. If so, hopefully he can adjust.

His slider used to have more sharpness in its break IMO.

Hopefully Merryweather can be healthy one day and wasny a spider tack guy. He has elite closer written all over him.

bluejays · 08-11-2021, 02:44 PM

The Jays have a good history of producing closers, and at times not so good history of bringing in closers. I think if they’re going all in next year, you bring in a proven vet through a trade. As much as Merryweather, Cimber, Romano have looked, if I was to rely on them for an out, I’d prefer going with a vet, if not Merryweather. Any one of those three are excellent set up men though.

Roof-Daddy · 08-11-2021, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

The Jays have a good history of producing closers, and at times not so good history of bringing in closers. I think if they’re going all in next year, you bring in a proven vet through a trade. As much as Merryweather, Cimber, Romano have looked, if I was to rely on them for an out, I’d prefer going with a vet, if not Merryweather. Any one of those three are excellent set up men though.

This is why I wanted them to snag Kimbrel so badly because he was for this year and next. He was pricier than I thought though.

Sylvanfan · 08-11-2021, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

This is why I wanted them to snag Kimbrel so badly because he was for this year and next. He was pricier than I thought though.

Baseball prospects are funny. I was going thru some old Baseball cards I have from like 1990 and 1991 because my wife knocked them off a shelf and spilled everything in the shoe box. The star rookie/top prospect lists from those years...Mike Mussina was about the only guy who had a notable career. Other than that, it's a list of guys only hard core fans would remember.

I look at the Phillies not wanting to give Kyle Drabek in the Roy Halladay deal...they cost themselves a real shot at the 2010 series because they would not give up a guy who amounted to nothing to get a proven horse at the time.

If there's a player that can make that difference to get you over the edge...pay the price and go for it is my theory. Don't live in fear because you don't want to give up Jeff Bagwell to get Danny Darwin. Even the R.A. Dickey trade...what's Syndergaard doing these days...he's effed my fantasy keeper team for the last three years.

So for that reason, I like the Berrios trade, and would be fine with getting Kimbrel, Baseball is a sport where you need to go for it, or be rebuilding. There is no middling playoff teams and don't get stuck in that zone. The Jays spent like 15 years there of being good, but not good enough or bad enough.

flames_fan_down_under · 08-11-2021, 04:27 PM

Ya it’s a good question. I think Romano has the prototypical closer stuff with the high velo fastball and decent slider. I agree he was definitely more effective when pitchers were using the sticky stuff, there is a noticeable drop off in this effectiveness of his pitches since the ban. I still feel fine with him in the closer spot and Cimber in the set up role, but Romano does walk a few too many for my liking. But there are really only a handful of elite closers in the majors and a bunch of Romanos.

KelVarnsen · 08-11-2021, 05:48 PM

https://twitter.com/user/status/1425603110412689412

Vladdy back to hitting 3rd. Which is probably a good thing

Jiri Hrdina · 08-11-2021, 06:15 PM

No Bo?

Jeff Lebowski · 08-11-2021, 06:26 PM

I was just listening to MLB Tonight on sirius. When talking AL East the analysts were asked who will finish first and who is best team. They all said Rays as the best team but interestingly one guy (don't know) said the Jays are his favourite.

He couldn't understand how they were only in 4th - granted while being 10 games over .500.

Their bullpen was decimated with injuries all year! From the beginning with Yates even!! They Jays did their work in the offseason to address but 'everyone has a plan until you get punched in the nose'.

Merryweather looked insanely good - 100mph heater and 75mph change?!? Are you kidding?!!?? Borucki is very underrated by fans imo. The bullpen actually looked great early on.

I know people will say Montoyo lost them games but I don't buy that at all. There are so many things managers have to consider. I remember the Dodgers (2019) and Pedro Baez and the fans hated him and called Roberts an idiot. They wanted both shot into the sun but Baez really took off. I feel Dolis is like him. Chill dudes. You need these arms and you have to get them in rhythm.

Enoch Root · 08-11-2021, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No Bo?

Had a shin guard on yesterday, but took another one off the shin.

Hopefully it's just a one-day thing again.

Enoch Root · 08-11-2021, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I was just listening to MLB Tonight on sirius. When talking AL East the analysts were asked who will finish first and who is best team. They all said Rays as the best team but interestingly one guy (don't know) said the Jays are his favourite.

He couldn't understand how they were only in 4th - granted while being 10 games over .500.

Their bullpen was decimated with injuries all year! From the beginning with Yates even!! They Jays did their work in the offseason to address but 'everyone has a plan until you get punched in the nose'.

Merryweather looked insanely good - 100mph heater and 75mph change?!? Are you kidding?!!?? Borucki is very underrated by fans imo. The bullpen actually looked great early on.

I know people will say Montoyo lost them games but I don't buy that at all. There are so many things managers have to consider. I remember the Dodgers (2019) and Pedro Baez and the fans hated him and called Roberts an idiot. They wanted both shot into the sun but Baez really took off. I feel Dolis is like him. Chill dudes. You need these arms and you have to get them in rhythm.

This doesn't make sense: if managers have so many things to consider, then they are, by definition, very important, no? And if they are very important, and are making lots of decisions that affect the team, then their decisions will have a big impact on the outcomes of games.

And from there, we van posit that good decisions will have positive results (over time), while poor decisions will have a negative impact over time.

And IMO, Montoyo's body of work with respect to in-game decision, has been a negative. Great guy who is a great teaching manager, and good for a young team that is learning their way and not trying to be competitive. But he hasn't been able to switch gears along with the team.

Jeff Lebowski · 08-11-2021, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This doesn't make sense: if managers have so many things to consider, then they are, by definition, very important, no? And if they are very important, and are making lots of decisions that affect the team, then their decisions will have a big impact on the outcomes of games.

And from there, we van posit that good decisions will have positive results (over time), while poor decisions will have a negative impact over time.

And IMO, Montoyo's body of work with respect to in-game decision, has been a negative. Great guy who is a great teaching manager, and good for a young team that is learning their way and not trying to be competitive. But he hasn't been able to switch gears along with the team.

My point is that it's not just short term thinking or decisions. For the example I suggested the decision that affects the team was getting an important reliever going because during a long season the manager has to consider stress on other arms/options and setting up series to have guys who will be ready to come in for certain spots (high leverage).

So maybe Dolis (or Baez) are struggling right now but in the long game you have to keep your trust because you need to get that arm going and the player confident for down the road.

Enoch Root · 08-11-2021, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

My point is that it's not just short term thinking or decisions. For the example I suggested the decision that affects the team was getting an important reliever going because during a long season the manager has to consider stress on other arms/options and setting up series to have guys who will be ready to come in for certain spots (high leverage).

So maybe Dolis (or Baez) are struggling right now but in the long game you have to keep your trust because you need to get that arm going and the player confident for down the road.

Ok, with you now. And yes, that is all true.

None the less there is ample evidence, IMO, that he makes too many poor decisions.

Are there times when there may be other factors that fans are unaware of? Of course.

Are there examples where fans criticize him unduly or inaccurately? Of course.

But even filtering those things out, there are still enough questionable decisions to build a case that he isn't good at managing a contender. IMO.