Let's Talk About Minimum Wage, Class Warfare, Wage Gaps, etc.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I keep seeing $1000 or more for daycare. Why isn’t the $10 a day thing being raised as a huge issue?

It's a huge issue for nearly every other parent I've spoken to anecdotally.

[Weitz]

$10/day daycare would be great. I could have more kids. That’s great for the climate right?

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Weitz

$10/day daycare would be great. I could have more kids. That’s great for the climate right?

Honestly with $10/day daycare, we probably would have considered a 3rd. My wife really wanted want, but paying for 7.5 hours of daycare instead of 9, and having one parent show up to work everyday late for 7 years, while the other snuck out early every day for 7 years, costing us standing at work (probably reducing our career potential incomes overall), while we were spending like crazy on that service was just a little too much

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Roger

What a ridiculous budget you're expecting here. If you've still got two kids that need full time daycare, to the tune of $2400, then there's no f'ing way you should be buying a $500,000 house, and a new car. Neither of those are necessities.

You can go and claim the other extreme of a 15 year old beater, but that's just you, expecting that you get handed your life on a platter. I somehow managed to raise my kid in a half duplex, with a 10 year old vehicle, and further managed to find a dayhome that was only $600/mo., and now suddenly, a few years later, I've got extra money in my account, making not much more than half your salary.

Seriously, you're spending your hard earned money on expensive glue, and I'd like a sniff, because it seems like it's the good stuff. Instead of the good glue, I learned to fix a few things on my own, and went without the flat screen and PS4 in the bedroom. Funny how money can be saved when you're not wasting it on wants and instead of using it on needs.

I seriously can't get over how insane your post is. As though a $500,000 detached house is a god given right. STFU and earn it. My kid's RESP has a fair amount (not full), my mortgage is well on it's way to being paid, and my vehicle is a little older. Boo hoo. Someone owes me something.

That said, I agree with the living wage part of the thread, just not this lunatic that thinks that being a newlywed means the right to two kids, a half million dollar house, and a $600/mo car payment. 1 less kid, 33% less house, and 50% less car somehow makes the math work pretty easily. In other words, get your #### together.

Ok boomer

[Derek Sutton]

A lot of differnt issues/ topics/ situations rolled into this thread, but how clear does it need to be, that if you are struggling on minimum wage, having a child should be the last thing on your to do list?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

A lot of differnt issues/ topics/ situations rolled into this thread, but how clear does it need to be, that if you are struggling on minimum wage, having a child should be the last thing on your to do list?

Things happen.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

A lot of differnt issues/ topics/ situations rolled into this thread, but how clear does it need to be, that if you are struggling on minimum wage, having a child should be the last thing on your to do list?

Well yah, but people will argue against that.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

A lot of differnt issues/ topics/ situations rolled into this thread, but how clear does it need to be, that if you are struggling on minimum wage, having a child should be the last thing on your to do list?

It’s probably more likely the other way, you had a child early, put education on hold as a result of needing money to raise a child, and then got a minimum wage job.

That said I’d rather target subsidies at the single parent then at all minimum wage employees.

[GGG]

Nm - think I misinterpreted

[chemgear]

And having a child is like the single worst thing you can do environmentally. If that's is at all a priority, should you really be financially incentivizing it?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Sliver

They're too young and naive to want it right now. They also didn't grow up in a house where the furnace crapped out and it was -30 and their mom burst into tears because she had no money to fix it. They honestly are blissfully unaware of how hard it can be when you don't have enough money.

I'm finding as I get older major diminishing returns in how happy a new cool purchase makes me. Planning for my kids puts a smile on my face, so maybe it isn't as altruistic as I'm making it sound. I like to plan to be able to help them because I like it, not because I feel I'm giving anything up.

If they end up being financially well off and not in need of my help, fata it, I'll buy a Rolex and a Porsche to celebrate.

If your parents have extra money, pitch buying a "legacy property" to them. I love that term for a family cabin/condo somewhere fun. Everybody gets to enjoy it (including them) and you can create some awesome memories. Invermere, Canmore, Radium...lots to choose from.

This is a great post.

[Roger]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Ok boomer

Whatever, bud. I'm 42. Get your head out of your ass.

[RichieRich]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I do understand that sentiment, but I also feel like that's now an outdated idea that's no longer in line with reality.

When a decent home in Calgary is now worth at least $500k, a new vehicle is at least $40k, child care costs around $1200 per child, internet and phone plans are astronomically high. It becomes close to impossible to purchase just the basics on minimum wage. Heck, a two income household making average income can't afford the average cost of things.

But that's my point... the EXPECTATION that ALL should be able to purchase a home is simply not realistic at all. Or a new vehicle. Quite often some people really just should not be "privileged" to make some purchases or decisions in life regardless of whether they want to or not. The capacity simply isn't there and can't be justified. Our culture and schooling makes for too much entitlement, often unjustifiable. There's really almost no reason to have a $100+/month cell/data phone bill these days if it's purely for domestic use - that's a stupid thing to take on, and reflects either naivety or laziness. (I say this having a ~$100/mo cell/data plan that covers a full family with EACH of us at 25gb/mo and unlimited Canada everything... but I had to bargain HARD to get that). All our last few vehicles were bought used. Plus I pursue many other cost-reduction/savings (that, admittedly, makes the spouse shake their head).

[Roger]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Ok boomer

Ok, let's chat. Tell me why you're entitled to a half million dollar house and a new car, while you're still providing for your less than school age children? Do you even understand the process of growing up? Again, I agree with a living wage, but you're talking about not being able to survive off of $120k. Dafuq, yo. You've got some serious spending problems.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Roger

Whatever, bud. I'm 42. Get your head out of your ass.

Not much older than me "bud".

Maybe if you focused a bit on reading comprehension in high-school, you would be able to make that average salary. Then you would be able to purchase that average home and average vehicle.... wait Scratch that. You still wouldn't be able to afford ####, because that's not how our economy works anymore.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Not much older than me "bud".

Maybe if you focused a bit on reading comprehension in high-school, you would be able to make that average salary. Then you would be able to purchase that average home and average vehicle.... wait Scratch that. You still wouldn't be able to afford ####, because that's not how our economy works anymore.

I mean, you’re looking pretty stupid saying a family making 120k needs a 500k house and a 40k car. But you do you.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Roger

Ok, let's chat. Tell me why you're entitled to a half million dollar house and a new car, while you're still providing for your less than school age children? Do you even understand the process of growing up? Again, I agree with a living wage, but you're talking about not being able to survive off of $120k. Dafuq, yo. You've got some serious spending problems.

So making an average salary means you have to rough it? It means you won't be able to purchase an average home or average vehicle? Making less than that means you're utterly screwed? How does that make sense at any point in history other than in this decade?

[Roger]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Not much older than me "bud".

Maybe if you focused a bit on reading comprehension in high-school, you would be able to make that average salary. Then you would be able to purchase that average home and average vehicle.... wait Scratch that. You still wouldn't be able to afford ####, because that's not how our economy works anymore.

Maybe my priorities are a bit different. I don't need to move all over the USA and drag ass over their cities, only to come home and talk more #### about things these days. Maybe I found what I liked, and have lots of time to go home to my kid, and I still manage to pay my bills without blaming everyone else that I can't afford a monster sized house and a new car?

[Roger]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So making an average salary means you have to rough it? It means you won't be able to purchase an average home or average vehicle? Making less than that means you're utterly screwed? How does that make sense at any point in history other than in this decade?

How is my kid's well funded RESP, my own RRSP, and my mortgage utterly screwed? Just because I'm not whining about how bad kids these days have it, I'm roughing it? Lol. Keep whining, nerd. It'll take you places.

[RichieRich]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What you're describing is essentially the result of largely unchecked capitalism. More capitalism, or solutions developed within a capitalist ideology are not going to fix it. You may not want to go a "socialist route" but a balance is required, which naturally means the infusion of solutions drawn from socialist ideologies. It's unavoidable.

There is no fix for this otherwise.

You can say this or that is a race to the bottom, but we're racing to the bottom as we speak.

And I would argue that your perception of a consumerist society (daily coffee, new TVs, starter homes, new vehicles) is completely from a point of privilege. The problem isn't the consumerist society, it's... sadly... that large sections of the population no longer have the option to even participate in that consumerist society. I agree that what you mentioned is a problem, but it's a very middle-upper class problem. There are people who work 40+ hours a week and cannot afford any of what you've mentioned. That's the issue.

It also seems like a constant red herring. Older generations seem fixated on consumerism as a key problem holding young people and people with lower incomes back. "Stop buying the new phone every year! Stop with the avocado toast!" It's a sign to me that someone has no clue how people are actually living and the significance of the problems they face. The issue is not that people need to be paid more because they're wasting money on a new phone every year.

Whether the solution is higher taxes across the board (I favour a flat income tax and a high sales tax that fully exempts essentials), increased subsidies, programs like UBI, better housing regulation, or whatever else, the solution is not coming from capitalism, and it is not coming from pulling up your boot straps and minding your spending.

I think you called me old? I'm not 50 yet but older than 40 but true enough I do have some older ideas, many of which were inherited from the parents. I was brought up without much (ie: yes I was that kid that had hand-me-down underwear), have travelled a lot and seen true true destitution where people might be "lucky" to live another day. So, to me, I see excess examples of consumerism, wastage, expectations and demands exceed potential to support them. I see far far too many failures where "the man" is to blame instead of personal accountability and self-awareness of immediate and long term decisions. For example, I have "poor" friends whose T4's are near $200k/annual who whine and moan about how they're only freedom-75 plan... yet they travel a lot, regular new cars, kids in many expensive sports that require travel, all kinds of toys, etc... and they actually feel they're hard done by. It's wrong, IMO, to expect the government to be your saviour. It's also wrong to expect any society to tax their way to prosperity, or to take from the richer and give to the poorer like we are headed towards. F that.



That said.. I support your concept of certain tax-exempt items, but lets also throw in consumption-based taxes. Even though I pay a fair bit of tax I do see some value in a graduated taxation too, however enough is enough at some point. Those that pay the least tax may be victims of their situation (earned or inherited or just crap luck) indeed, and that sucks, however it's not reasonable to expect those that scrimped and saved and worked their @$$e$ off to now be penalized.