[Signing] Oilers sign Darnell Nurse to extension beginning in 2022 (8 yrs, $9.25 mil AAV)

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

It gets funnier:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1424056551908593671

While this is true, you could argue that Nurse is on the upswing while Jones is trending down over multiple years.

I'm just saying there's a debate... but it's not a debate you want your newly-signed #1D to be involved in regardless of whether you're Chicago or Edmonton.

Is Jim Matheson for real, what a clown. Darnell Nurse is a speed bag for crying out loud, protecting a 6’3” 220 lb Raisatl, what a disgrace.

[Roughneck]

Still stuck in the 80s. "Protection"? Supposedly that's what Kassian is paid for, but now Nurse is getting $9.25M to spend time in the box every time somebody wants to hit McDavid or Draisatl?

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I'm just saying there's a debate... but it's not a debate you want your newly-signed #1D to be involved in regardless of whether you're Chicago or Edmonton.

There is no debate, Seth Jones is a significantly better dman than Nurse.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

There is no debate, Seth Jonesis a significantly better dman than Nurse.

There's very obviously a debate.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

There's very obviously a debate.

If you spend any time watching them both play, there is no debate.

[TheScorpion]

Eye test arguments are so funny to me.

[Sofa GM]

There isn’t a team in this league, other than the Coilers, that take Darnell Nurse over Seth Jones. No chance.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Eye test arguments are so funny to me.

Are you suggesting that you think stats - in a team game, where the other players on the ice with you and against you determine success - are more important?

That would explain some of your more bizarre takes.

Stats are useful supplemental data, but they do NOT replace actually watching players play.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Eye test arguments are so funny to me.

Especially since, I mean first of all I've spent a ton of time watching them both play... but obviously Jfresh has spent way more time that both of us combined watching them.

It's just immediately disqualifying, it'd be like going into the American politics thread in off-topic calling everyone a bunch of ####s and ranting about how Bill Gates is behind the pandemic. You're only making it clear that you shouldn't be listened to about anything.

But more importantly, saying "I think X guy is obviously better", subjectively, without any backup or justification, and declaring that therefore there's "no debate" when there very clearly is one going on right now in front of your face is just this perfectly obnoxious union of arrogance and stupidity.

[TheScorpion]

The key is that most NHL teams are run poorly.

In a vacuum, both players are on negative-value contracts.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Are you suggesting that you think stats - in a team game, where the other players on the ice with you and against you determine success - are more important?

That would explain some of your more bizarre takes.

Stats are useful supplemental data, but they do NOT replace actually watching players play.

No. That's entirely a contrived strawman argument on your end. Stats are supportive tools.

What I find funny is when eye test folks enter an argument and attempt to completely invalidate previous points made by citing their own largely baseless individual viewings of players as absolutes.

Pure eye test arguments pale in comparison to player assessments that combine viewings with data. And a lot of the publicly available data takes teammates and game situations into account. In an environment where we can contextualize our eye tests with numbers, it's pointless to ignore the data that's available.

I can look at players like Joel Edmundson, Nikita Zadorov, and Seth Jones and come away very unimpressed with their overall games. Zadorov is a punishing physical player who is a good at defending on the rush. He's also inept in the offensive zone and struggles with positioning in his own end, leading to his poor production and PK results. I come to these conclusions using the data that's available... after I watch the players.

I'm not anti-eye test. I used the eye test every time I watched the Heat last season. I also scrounged around for every piece of contextual data available to me to back my arguments.

What I find funny is when people just throw out "eye test" arguments like "he logs a ton of minutes" and "every NHL team would take him" and "he looks like a number one guy." Those are meaningless statements.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

No. That's entirely a contrived strawman argument on your end. Stats are supportive tools.

What I find funny is when eye test folks enter an argument and attempt to completely invalidate previous points made by citing their own largely baseless individual viewings of players as absolutes.

Pure eye test arguments pale in comparison to player assessments that combine viewings with data. And a lot of the publicly available data takes teammates and game situations into account. In an environment where we can contextualize our eye tests with numbers, it's pointless to ignore the data that's available.

I can look at players like Joel Edmundson, Nikita Zadorov, and Seth Jones and come away very unimpressed with their overall games. Zadorov is a punishing physical player who is a good at defending on the rush. He's also inept in the offensive zone and struggles with positioning in his own end, leading to his poor production and PK results.

I'm not anti-eye test. I used the eye test every time I watched the Heat last season. I also scrounged around for every piece of contextual data available to me to contextualize my arguments.

What I find funny is when people just throw out "eye test" arguments like "he logs a ton of minutes" and "every NHL team would take him" and "he looks like a number one guy." Those are meaningless statements.

Okay thanks, misinterpreted your point.

To the bold though, those aren't 'eye test' arguments (except the 3rd one), they are simply weak arguments. Good eye test arguments focus on tools, positioning, usage, etc

[TheScorpion]

Yes and it was my mistake to say something so flippant.

Some of the people I respect most in hockey media are those who know their stuff about hockey tactics. Jack Han, in particular, is one of my favourite Twitter follows because he's constantly explaining the tiniest details of hockey strategy and how certain players stack up.

He's not a huge fan of Nurse:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1423789809533956099

[SportsJunky]

The next time Mason Raymond is on a breakaway, I think he should go top corner. But don’t tell the goalie that. Tell the goalie he has a knife. - Jack Handey

[GirlySports]

After the Seth Jones and Dougie Hamilton contracts, there is where Nurse is. It's high but with Klefbom's injury/possible retirement, losing Larsson, the Ethan Bear trade, the Duncan Keith trade, etc. Still waiting on Bouchard and Broberg, too. Extending Nurse was an absolute must.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I dunno - ask Leon.

[Jacks]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1424135352093138947
Overpay, full NMC for 6 years then restrictive NTC for 2 years, buyout proof.
Is there anything that Holland "won" on in that negotiation?

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Jacks

https://twitter.com/user/status/1424135352093138947
Overpay, full NMC for 6 years then restrictive NTC for 2 years, buyout proof.
Is there anything that Holland "won" on in that negotiation?

The love and support of Calgary Puck.

[browna]

Kevin: Hi Jim, remember when McSorely pounded the tar out of anyone who touched Coffs?

JM: Oh do I! Me and Jonsey would have bets to see how many opponents got blood drawn.

Kevin: Yeah, those were the days! Slats pulled me aside many times and told me how he could justify having players like that. So, I know Kassian hasn't worked out the way we hoped, but that's due to a bad GM and coach, so I'll talked to Kassian and some others individually without Tips or Holly knowing and that will give them clear direction from someone who's been there. Anyways, with Nurse now going to elevate his game, it's good that we did that deal with Kass when we did, as Nurse will need to do less of the fisticuffs. Glad you feel the same way as me, feel free to express that on your Twitter.

[eddly]

If you pay a defensemen as if he is one of the best in the league… he becomes one of the best?