Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[getbak]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'd wager he would have been worth more pre July 28th. Now we will never know because his NTC sets an extremely limited market to drive value in return.

Arguably, the best return for him would be in a deal similar to the Jones trade, where the player has agreed to sign a long-term extension with his new team.

As a result, the NTC shouldn't be a hinderance at all, and making a trade before it kicked in wouldn't make a difference because if he's willing to sign a long-term deal with a team, he wouldn't block a trade to make that happen.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'd wager he would have been worth more pre July 28th. Now we will never know because his NTC sets an extremely limited market to drive value in return.

Which also depends on the 5 teams he lists. Because if 8ts 5 teams he play for and re-sign with, they could potentially be in a bidding war for him.

For example, Johnny lists, NJ, PHI, NYR, BOS and PITT. They're all teams who have kicked around on Johnny previously so they know there's interest.

If he lists 1 team he can go to and 4 other teams they'd never deal him.to (EDM, VAN, WPG etc.) Then it's get really dicey on value.

If he's smart, he'd list 5 times that would have zero interest in him as a rental (rebuilding teams), giving him an effectively complete NTC. Which is often what they do when it's just a small amount of teams, which 5 is.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I agree about this being a concern, but when is the last time the Flames let an elite forward go to free agency? Michael Cammalleri comes to mind, but he couldn't even fetch a 2nd round pick as a rental.

When was the last time the Flames had an elite forward in his walk year (before Johnny)?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, I didn't really think of him going the way of Brodie as they would trade him regardless of playoff status next deadline but that won't be the case. The NTC definitely limits options but even with pre July 28th, I figured he'd get a late first some meh prospects from a contender and that can still be done at the deadline.

Originally Posted by The Cobra

When was the last time the Flames had an elite forward in his walk year (before Johnny)?

Tanguay and Iginla?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Tanguay and Iginla?

Tanguay was 34 when he suited up for Montreal and IMO no longer elite.

Iginla was 35 and his best days were behind him.

Each was traded as a rental for the usual 1st round pick and crap.

Johnny is in his prime and if he's moved we would certainly expect more for him than that, even if it's a deadline deal.

Although since I don't expect Calgary would deal him at the deadline if they were in the playoffs, it means they need to sign him or trade him sooner and not later.

[Tbull8]

I have heard it from a source close to management (if you don't want to believe me, all good) that the 3 teams still seriously in on Eichel are Anaheim, Vegas, and Calgary.

As well, there is a serious rift between Tkachuk and the team. He has not been training with any of the flames this summer, and has made it very clear he wants to go to the states (ideally St. Louis).

Last year after the Muzzin incident, closed door meeting for the players, but then Tkachuk met with management and was told "we will help you fight your battles, but we're not going to fight all of them every night".

From that point on, he was described as acting "pouty" for the rest of the season (which seems obvious now given how he was playing).

The Flames are looking to move him as part of the Eichel package, since there is almost 0% chance he re-signs here next summer, but Buffalo is not that interested in him. Likely because they know he isn't signing there either.
This seems to be the hold up on the Eichel deal. If a 3rd team got involved, Tkachuk would likely end up there with more futures going to Buffalo.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If he's smart, he'd list 5 times that would have zero interest in him as a rental (rebuilding teams), giving him an effectively complete NTC. Which is often what they do when it's just a small amount of teams, which 5 is.

That could backfire though. If one of those teams does want him he is in a situation he doesn't want to be. It worked out for Kadri when he did want to waive because he wanted to stay in Toronto, but he ended up getting traded anyhow even though he didn't want to. To be honest, a NTC doesn't mean you can' t be moved, it just means the player has a trade. I think Flames fans tend to harp on it a little more because of past incidents (Iginla, Kadri, etc).

[alan21]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Tanguay was 34 when he suited up for Montreal and IMO no longer elite.

Iginla was 35 and his best days were behind him.

Each was traded as a rental for the usual 1st round pick and crap.

Johnny is in his prime and if he's moved we would certainly expect more for him than that, even if it's a deadline deal.

Although since I don't expect Calgary would deal him at the deadline if they were in the playoffs, it means they need to sign him or trade him sooner and not later.

Tanguay was only 29 when he went to MTL.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I have heard it from a source close to management (if you don't want to believe me, all good) that the 3 teams still seriously in on Eichel are Anaheim, Vegas, and Calgary.

As well, there is a serious rift between Tkachuk and the team. He has not been training with any of the flames this summer, and has made it very clear he wants to go to the states (ideally St. Louis).

Last year after the Muzzin incident, closed door meeting for the players, but then Tkachuk met with management and was told "we will help you fight your battles, but we're not going to fight all of them every night".

From that point on, he was described as acting "pouty" for the rest of the season (which seems obvious now given how he was playing).

The Flames are looking to move him as part of the Eichel package, since there is almost 0% chance he re-signs here next summer, but Buffalo is not that interested in him. Likely because they know he isn't signing there either.
This seems to be the hold up on the Eichel deal. If a 3rd team got involved, Tkachuk would likely end up there with more futures going to Buffalo.

that would be really disappointing if what you are saying about Tkachuk is true... I think this team needs more Tkachuk's and not less.

If true, including him in the Buffalo deal would make the most sense from an asset management point of view, though Buffalo having concerns makes sense to some degree, they would have that issue with any player traded to them imo.

Tkachuk has much more upside than Monahan, so theoretically, Buffalo could flip him after consummating a trade with Calgary.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I have heard it from a source close to management (if you don't want to believe me, all good) that the 3 teams still seriously in on Eichel are Anaheim, Vegas, and Calgary.

As well, there is a serious rift between Tkachuk and the team. He has not been training with any of the flames this summer, and has made it very clear he wants to go to the states (ideally St. Louis).

Last year after the Muzzin incident, closed door meeting for the players, but then Tkachuk met with management and was told "we will help you fight your battles, but we're not going to fight all of them every night".

From that point on, he was described as acting "pouty" for the rest of the season (which seems obvious now given how he was playing).

The Flames are looking to move him as part of the Eichel package, since there is almost 0% chance he re-signs here next summer, but Buffalo is not that interested in him. Likely because they know he isn't signing there either.
This seems to be the hold up on the Eichel deal. If a 3rd team got involved, Tkachuk would likely end up there with more futures going to Buffalo.

Thanks for the update TBull. The Tkachuk information can't be news to anyone. It was obvious from the puck toss on. I wonder how much value Tkachuk has around the league? He's a Liam Neeson player, coming with a specific set of skills, but he could be one of those players that does as much damage to your team as he does good. High risk player with an equally high risk contract. I would still take the rumored St. Louis deal that's on the table. We're better off with the depth, so long as we get Gaudreau and Eichel under contract for at least the next five years.

[CroFlames]

If the Tkachuk thing is true, then good riddance.

That set him off so bad that he was pouty for an entire year? Give me a break.

[TheIronMaiden]

Sad if true.

[mile]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I have heard it from a source close to management (if you don't want to believe me, all good) that the 3 teams still seriously in on Eichel are Anaheim, Vegas, and Calgary.

As well, there is a serious rift between Tkachuk and the team. He has not been training with any of the flames this summer, and has made it very clear he wants to go to the states (ideally St. Louis).

Last year after the Muzzin incident, closed door meeting for the players, but then Tkachuk met with management and was told "we will help you fight your battles, but we're not going to fight all of them every night".

From that point on, he was described as acting "pouty" for the rest of the season (which seems obvious now given how he was playing).

The Flames are looking to move him as part of the Eichel package, since there is almost 0% chance he re-signs here next summer, but Buffalo is not that interested in him. Likely because they know he isn't signing there either.
This seems to be the hold up on the Eichel deal. If a 3rd team got involved, Tkachuk would likely end up there with more futures going to Buffalo.

This is juicy info, thanks for sharing. I had a feeling this was the case after seeing his demeanour in his garbage day interview.

Seems like the right move is to trade Tkachuk for a package with futures and include the futures in the Eichel trade.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Tanguay was 34 when he suited up for Montreal and IMO no longer elite.

Iginla was 35 and his best days were behind him.

Each was traded as a rental for the usual 1st round pick and crap.

Johnny is in his prime and if he's moved we would certainly expect more for him than that, even if it's a deadline deal.

Although since I don't expect Calgary would deal him at the deadline if they were in the playoffs, it means they need to sign him or trade him sooner and not later.

Iggy still had 30+ goals with the low scoring Bruins the year after and still had a few 20+ goal seasons before going into is lime light years. It's a shame that the Flames had no ability to capitalize on their elite players. Age is only relative, as is speed.

[Monahammer]

As feared.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

If the Tkachuk thing is true, then good riddance.

That set him off so bad that he was pouty for an entire year? Give me a break.

There is also the fact he was stuck in a hotel and couldn’t let off any steam or anything for months on end. 23 year old in isolation would be tough especially when that person had likely been able to do what he wants when he wants for the full year.


Can’t say I am surprised about this but it is disappointing. Move him in a deal for Eichel then and consider moving Lindholm back to the wing. Still really solid up the middle and likely have to give up less futures than the Monahan lead deal

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

I have heard it from a source close to management (if you don't want to believe me, all good) that the 3 teams still seriously in on Eichel are Anaheim, Vegas, and Calgary.

As well, there is a serious rift between Tkachuk and the team. He has not been training with any of the flames this summer, and has made it very clear he wants to go to the states (ideally St. Louis).

Last year after the Muzzin incident, closed door meeting for the players, but then Tkachuk met with management and was told "we will help you fight your battles, but we're not going to fight all of them every night".

From that point on, he was described as acting "pouty" for the rest of the season (which seems obvious now given how he was playing).

The Flames are looking to move him as part of the Eichel package, since there is almost 0% chance he re-signs here next summer, but Buffalo is not that interested in him. Likely because they know he isn't signing there either.
This seems to be the hold up on the Eichel deal. If a 3rd team got involved, Tkachuk would likely end up there with more futures going to Buffalo.

Sorry but I don't believe this.

Zero chance he re-signs next summer? He's an RFA. If he wants to play in North America, he literally has no choice. If he refuses to play, his RFA status slides a year.

Beyond that, we've heard nothing from insiders except how highly the Flames value Tkachuk.

And if management is looking to move one of the two or three players who cared last season, then why am I even cheering for this team?

[P-DAZZLE]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Sorry but I don't believe this.

Zero chance he re-signs next summer? He's an RFA. If he wants to play in North America, he literally has no choice. If he refuses to play, his RFA status slides a year.

And if management is looking to move one of the two or three players who cared last season, then why am I even cheering for this team?

Zero chance he signs long term I'd imagine. He can just force his way to UFA as early as possible.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Sorry but I don't believe this.

Zero chance he re-signs next summer? He's an RFA. If he wants to play in North America, he literally has no choice. If he refuses to play, his RFA status slides a year.

And if management is looking to move one of the two or three players who cared last season, then why am I even cheering for this team?

I think he means signing long term. Tkatchuk has all the leverage next year. At worst, he just accepts the qualifying offer of $9M for a year, and is UFA after another year.

[colbym72]

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything but am genuinely asking. Is Tbull8 reliable?