2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Not actually folding but just trying to illustrate the short sightedness of trading off picks & prospects. Just feels like people don't care what happens after all of this.


I feel like I've seen combos that crazy. I've seen people suggesting Tkachuk or Monahan, Zary, Pelletier, a 1st, etc. Its nuts.

I dont think anyone is saying we need to trade everyone. Everyone is saying some combination of picks or roster players as far as I can see.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Not actually folding but just trying to illustrate the short sightedness of trading off picks & prospects. Just feels like people don't care what happens after all of this.





I feel like I've seen combos that crazy. I've seen people suggesting Tkachuk or Monahan, Zary, Pelletier, a 1st, etc. Its nuts.

Right, but any actual deal is not going to look anything like these proposals.

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[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Right, but any actual deal is not going to look anything like these proposals.

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I wish others realized that too.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Not actually folding but just trying to illustrate the short sightedness of trading off picks & prospects. Just feels like people don't care what happens after all of this.


I feel like I've seen combos that crazy. I've seen people suggesting Tkachuk or Monahan, Zary, Pelletier, a 1st, etc. Its nuts.

Tkachuk, Zary, Pelletier and a 1st >>>>>>>>>>>Monahan, Zary, Pelletier and a 1st.

They shouldn't be talked about in the same breath.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Not actually folding but just trying to illustrate the short sightedness of trading off picks & prospects. Just feels like people don't care what happens after all of this.

I feel like I've seen combos that crazy. I've seen people suggesting Tkachuk or Monahan, Zary, Pelletier, a 1st, etc. Its nuts.

For me, the Flames prospect pool is already weak and continuing to pick in the 10-20 range isn't going to do much to move that. I don't think Zary, Pelletier, or Coronato are top-line players and would rather take a swing at a real 1st line center.

The Flames aren't going to rebuild unless they are forced to and are going to be a playoff bubble team unless something changes. Gaudreau not being traded before his clause kicked-in really enforced that. Trade the 2022 1st and if the Eichel trade blows up and Gaudreau forces his way out then Tre is probably fired and the next rebuild starts.

[Toonage]

The next rebuild starts and the team is years behind the 8 ball at that point having exhausted the prospect pool on one bad deal.

Again, I get that if a deal were to go through it wouldn't be that lopsided (yeesh I hope not) but some fans are willing to take that risk or think its worth takin that risk. Its crazy.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Bonded

For me, the Flames prospect pool is already weak and continuing to pick in the 10-20 range isn't going to do much to move that. I don't think Zary, Pelletier, or Coronato are top-line players and would rather take a swing at a real 1st line center.

The Flames aren't going to rebuild unless they are forced to and are going to be a playoff bubble team unless something changes. Gaudreau not being traded before his clause kicked-in really enforced that. Trade the 2022 1st and if the Eichel trade blows up and Gaudreau forces his way out then Tre is probably fired and the next rebuild starts.

Although that might be true, what may move the needle is a bunch of the picks in the top 100 that the team has had over the last couple years (9 players). That is where good teams make hey. It just takes a little more time to develop those players.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The next rebuild starts and the team is years behind the 8 ball at that point having exhausted the prospect pool on one bad deal.

Again, I get that if a deal were to go through it wouldn't be that lopsided (yeesh I hope not) but some fans are willing to take that risk or think its worth takin that risk. Its crazy.

What else is there to look forward too. Hope for a rebound two years in a row and then get mad when it doesn't work the third time? The Flames are in that pure mediocrity zone right now and if Eichel works out then Pelletier/Coronato/a 1st will be inconsequential and if he doesn't at least management did something.

Originally Posted by Robbob

Although that might be true, what may move the needle is a bunch of the picks in the top 100 that the team has had over the last couple years (9 players). That is where good teams make hey. It just takes a little more time to develop those players.

For sure but that can still be done in addition to acquiring Eichel, trade some futures and try to keep capturing value in the later rounds.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Bonded

What else is there to look forward too. Hope for a rebound two years in a row and then get mad when it doesn't work the third time? The Flames are in that pure mediocrity zone right now and if Eichel works out then Pelletier/Coronato/a 1st will be inconsequential and if he doesn't at least management did something.

I'd rather build through the draft and make smart choices when trading or adding to the roster.

If this were Eichel from a few years ago maybe its more tempting.

Its not.

[Poe969]

Has there been any real news at all from any legitimate sources? Not even just about the Flames, anyone!

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The next rebuild starts and the team is years behind the 8 ball at that point having exhausted the prospect pool on one bad deal.

Again, I get that if a deal were to go through it wouldn't be that lopsided (yeesh I hope not) but some fans are willing to take that risk or think its worth takin that risk. Its crazy.

They may go out like the Blue Jackets did a few yrs back but at least they tried. Wont even be a bad thing if they bottom out instead of continuing to hang around 8th place with their middling prospect pool and mid round picks year after year after year. Im ready for greatness or bottoming out personally. Maybe I have gone mad I dont know. If we trust them to money puck a mid round pick what can they do with top 5 picks.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Bonded

What else is there to look forward too. Hope for a rebound two years in a row and then get mad when it doesn't work the third time? The Flames are in that pure mediocrity zone right now and if Eichel works out then Pelletier/Coronato/a 1st will be inconsequential and if he doesn't at least management did something.



For sure but that can still be done in addition to acquiring Eichel, trade some futures and try to keep capturing value in the later rounds.

Oh, I am on the trade for Eichel trade wagon if the price is right. If that trade is one or two current roster players and futures then lets do it. I hesitate when the cost is Monahan/Tkachuk, Mangipane, Dube, Valamaki and picks.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Psytic

They may go out like the Blue Jackets did a few yrs back but at least they tried. Wont even be a bad thing if they bottom out instead of continuing to hang around 8th place with their middling prospect pool and mid round picks year after year after year. Im ready for greatness or bottoming out personally. Maybe I have gone mad I dont know. If we trust them to money puck a mid round pick what can they do with top 5 picks.

That is where I am at. Building through the draft requires being bad enough to get a top 3 pick and then managing to get out of the bottom by building out a roster. I want the Flames to be legitimately in the bottom or at least be an outside contender. Eichel can accomplish that either way.

[dustygoon]

What’s the plan at LD in place of Gio? I get that committee approach sounds good but who is Darryl really going to give those minutes to? I can’t see Zadorov nor Valimaki.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I'd rather build through the draft and make smart choices when trading or adding to the roster.

If this were Eichel from a few years ago maybe its more tempting.

Its not.

I'd agree with that if the Flames were a legitimate contender or bad enough to get a top 3 pick but they are neither. I don't really want to watch another 2-3 years of competing for the 3rd or 4th playoff spot in the division.

If it was Eichel without any health issues than even if he were available the Flames would not even be talked about as an option as Zary/Pelletier/Coronato are not blue chip prospects. There is a risk to the trade for both the Sabres and the acquiring team. If Eichel returns to form then the Sabres will lose the trade.

[Psytic]

Roll with what we have. Wait out the season then hopefully re-sign Gio for cheap working of his nostaliga for this city. If he hasnt fallen off the wagon even more..

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I'd rather build through the draft and make smart choices when trading or adding to the roster.

If this were Eichel from a few years ago maybe its more tempting.

Its not.

How do we build through the draft when we seem to always pick ~13?

How do we maximize existing asset value to assist in building through the draft when the coach and ownership seemingly direct the team to compete every year?

Your proposal seems like the obvious approach in a vaccum, but the reality is that this core is coming to contract loggerheads that is going to create a situation where we could lose some of it for nothing. That window is closer than the window of existing prospects we could hope to use to build from the draft will be good enough to be meaningful.

Ownership doesn't want to rebuild, clearly. So the alternative is to try and win now before the contract situation makes that even more untenable. Eichel is a way to achieve that, cupboards be damned. If the Eichel experiment fails, the team will most certainly be set back, but this will actually FORCE ownership to finally do the rebuild/ build through draft approach properly. Until then we are stuck in limbo.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Right, but any actual deal is not going to look anything like these proposals.

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There are some on here who worry a great deal what other people think, but at the end of the day it has no bearing on how things will actually shake down.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

How do we build through the draft when we seem to always pick ~13?

How do we maximize existing asset value to assist in building through the draft when the coach and ownership seemingly direct the team to compete every year?

Your proposal seems like the obvious approach in a vaccum, but the reality is that this core is coming to contract loggerheads that is going to create a situation where we could lose some of it for nothing. That window is closer than the window of existing prospects we could hope to use to build from the draft will be good enough to be meaningful.

Ownership doesn't want to rebuild, clearly. So the alternative is to try and win now before the contract situation makes that even more untenable. Eichel is a way to achieve that, cupboards be damned. If the Eichel experiment fails, the team will most certainly be set back, but this will actually FORCE ownership to finally do the rebuild/ build through draft approach properly. Until then we are stuck in limbo.

Amen

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

What’s the plan at LD in place of Gio? I get that committee approach sounds good but who is Darryl really going to give those minutes to? I can’t see Zadorov nor Valimaki.

Hanifin about to play 30minutes/game