Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[Savvy27]

I'm sorry, but how are the Flames a team that lacks any depth? Compared to which teams?

LW
Gaudreau
Tkachuk
Mangiapane
Lucic

C
Lindholm
Monahan
Backlund
Dube

RW
Pitlick
Ritchie

LD
Hanifin
Valimaki

RD
Tanev
Andersson

G
Markstrom

That makes two forward positions that have no doubt NHL players four deep including two all stars in their prime. Two D positions that are 2 deep. And a bonafide starting goalie.

And that is excluding any rookies or free agents. 2 forward spots and 2 D spots and a backup goalie.

There are fair arguments that the RW position sucks and there is no elite D two way D man, but I disagree that the Flames have serious depth problems. And the most important forwards on the team are young. The idea that Eichel wouldn't have people to play with or that it would like being in Buffalo again is wrong.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I am from the future...

condolences on Bitcoin

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by AC

Especially since we have 0 chance of signing an elite UFA unless his best friend happens to be here.

This isn't NHL21, we don't have the same opportunities to attract free agents.

We have enough Swedes, one of them has to be his bestie though, right?

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by HitterD

We have enough Swedes, one of them has to be his bestie though, right?

Can they all give Landeskog a call?

[AC]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Can they all give Landeskog a call?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I'm sorry, but how are the Flames a team that lacks any depth? Compared to which teams?

Any of them? All of them?

You listed off a guy at center who has yet to play a game at center in the NHL. The LW position is our best, but we don’t play a couple of those guys at LW. They have to shift over to RW to fill out the lineup. Then on RW you’ve shown two players, one of which has not taken a shift for the Flames and we have no idea where he is going shake out. There are suggestions he will play 4th line center. The other guy is a 4th liner. So we are lacking at best two RWs, but in reality lacking three RWs. On defense you show four out of seven positions. We’re short three players. We’re also missing a goaltender. Most teams would at least be able to point to the minor league system and fill the gaps using bodies from within the system, but the Flames can’t even do that. We have no NHL ready bodies to fill out a line up. That is why people say we have no depth. When you can’t properly construct a lineup, you have depth problems, and the fact that the Flames cannot fill out the roster an multiple positions is indicative of having no depth.

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I just looked at 40 years of Flames drafting...there are a handful of guys on Eichel's level. He is better than almost every first rounder in franchise history. With Sutter, Eichel, Markstrom, Gaudreau, Lindholm, ect. on the roster they aren't picking top 3.

IDK giving up next years first doesn't seem all that risky to me...seems like using it would be far more risky

Plus if the season crashed and burned there are roster players that could easily get you back first round picks...Benning is basically giving them away

The guy has a neck injury serious enough that HE WANTS to have disc replacement surgery! The team wants him to fuse a disc! This is not a knee injury or a shoulder injury it’s a lot more serious and hasn’t even been resolved! Let’s see if the guy can ever get healthy again before trading for him.

[442scotty]

It’s a little crazy to me that people want to trade for Eichel. He’s not the Jack Eichel he used to be right now and might never be again. It’s like looking at a Kijiji ad for a 55 Chev where the first picture is amazing but only a picture of what the car could be. The rest of the pictures show a beaten down wreck. Stop looking at the first picture!!! It’s not real.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

It’s a little crazy to me that people want to trade for Eichel. He’s not the Jack Eichel he used to be right now and might never be again. It’s like looking at a Kijiji ad for a 55 Chev where the first picture is amazing but only a picture of what the car could be. The rest of the pictures show a beaten down wreck. Stop looking at the first picture!!! It’s not real.

Yeah players have never come back from injuries

Should Monahan just quit now?

[bubbsy]

So how bad is it if there's no extension in place by tomorrow, and gaudreau still a flame?

Would definitely feel like classic flames asset management.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

So how bad is it if there's no extension in place by tomorrow, and gaudreau still a flame?

Would definitely feel like classic flames asset management.

It's so bad I can't see it happening. It would basically signal the beginning of an official rebuild at the end of next season which doesn't align with the win now mission statement the organization operate.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Do you though?

The guy, literally, is looking at getting a piece of his spine replaced with an artificial disk.

That isn't an ACL tear that is almost 100% able to be fixed with proper rehab.

It's entirely unknown territory for an NHL player.

That HAS to be part of the consideration here along with acquisition cost.

Yeah but you know that. Of course it forms part of the calculation.

Alternatively you could not trade for him, draft players that could themselves suffer injuries.

My point was that if Flames are going with a win know attitude they might as well go for it. And Eichel as arguably the BPA this summer would be going for it.

(I prefer rebuild but I don’t see that happening)

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Yeah but you know that. Of course it forms part of the calculation.

You could not trade for him, draft players that could themselves suffer injuries.

You know what?

You know you;re getting an injured player but you do not know how that injury affects him moving forward, Again, this is a procedure never performed on an NHL player before.

So no, you don't know "exactly what you have" because it has no precedence to base it on.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I'm sorry, but how are the Flames a team that lacks any depth? Compared to which teams?

LW
Gaudreau
Tkachuk
Mangiapane
Lucic

C
Lindholm
Monahan
Backlund
Dube

RW
Pitlick
Ritchie

LD
Hanifin
Valimaki

RD
Tanev
Andersson

G
Markstrom

That makes two forward positions that have no doubt NHL players four deep including two all stars in their prime. Two D positions that are 2 deep. And a bonafide starting goalie.

And that is excluding any rookies or free agents. 2 forward spots and 2 D spots and a backup goalie.

There are fair arguments that the RW position sucks and there is no elite D two way D man, but I disagree that the Flames have serious depth problems. And the most important forwards on the team are young. The idea that Eichel wouldn't have people to play with or that it would like being in Buffalo again is wrong.

How many times did they score 1 goal or less and there was no help in the system to fix it?

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I'm sorry, but how are the Flames a team that lacks any depth? Compared to which teams?

RW
Pitlick
Ritchie


That makes two forward positions that have no doubt NHL players four deep including two all stars in their prime. Two D positions that are 2 deep. And a bonafide starting goalie.

And that is excluding any rookies or free agents. 2 forward spots and 2 D spots and a backup goalie.

There are fair arguments that the RW position sucks and there is no elite D two way D man, but I disagree that the Flames have serious depth problems. And the most important forwards on the team are young. The idea that Eichel wouldn't have people to play with or that it would like being in Buffalo again is wrong.

Flames are basically missing a top line, they have a good second line.

Of course the right wing as you mentioned is a huge issue.

Defense has issues, they also need a #1c,

Flames in my view are below average in terms of depth.

[driveway]

Edit: I was tryin' to quote Lanny here, my holier-than-thou tone doesn't quite land if it's not clearly directed at CP's eminence-gris

I know your whole "thing" is overreactions, but you're going a little bit overboard here. There are plenty of other teams with similar or worse depth issues than the Flames, these teams made the playoffs last year:



Nashville
Forsberg-Duchene-Sissons
Grimaldi-Johansen-Kunin
Cousins-Trenin-Matthieu
Tolvanen

Josi-Myers
Ekholm-Benning
Borowieci-Fabbro



Saros

Minnesota
Kaprizov-Erickson Ek-Zuccarello
Foligno-Rask-Greenway
-Hartman-Bjugstad
-Sturm-



Brodin-Spurgeon
-Dumba


Talbot
Kahkonen


Nashville's second-best centre scored 7 goals last year, Minnesota's scored 10.



Even teams like the Leafs start to look pretty thin pretty fast:

Nylander-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Simmonds
Mikheyev-Spezza-Engvall
-Brooks-



Muzzin-Brodie
Reilly-Holl
Dermott-Sandin


Campbell



Kerfoot and Simmonds combined for 15 goals last year. Are the Leafs probably going to do fine based of the production of their big 4 forwards and Reilly?



Or look at the league darling, and regular-season division champion Carolina Hurricanes, how badly do you think they want to shore up the left side of their lineup or the right side of their defence? And find a goalie?


Teravainen-Aho-Niedereitter
Foegele-Trochek-Svechnikov
-Staal-Fest
Lorentz-Necas-


Slavin-Pesce
Skjei-
Gardiner-


??



There are a few teams out there: Vegas, NY Islanders, Tampa, Washington, Boston with genuinely enviable depth, but to say that "any and every" NHL team has better, more enviable depth than the Flames - two days before free agency - is just silly.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

How many times did they score 1 goal or less and there was no help in the system to fix it?

Perhaps, the 3 highest paid forwards should take some (most) of the responsibility for the “one goal or less” scenarios. They are paid to “fix it”.

Yes...Johnny, Matt , and Sean need to be a lot more accountable for their individual performances and team results.

If they are not willing, able or committed to playing up to their level, move them.
Obviously, Sean has been dealing with injury issues.

What are the reasons or excuses for the other two?

Stand up, sit down or get out of the way!

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's so bad I can't see it happening. It would basically signal the beginning of an official rebuild at the end of next season which doesn't align with the win now mission statement the organization operate.

What if the Flames don’t hammer out a deal with Johnny until August 20th?

I can see a scenario where Johnny is unsigned and not traded tomorrow but I can’t see it being an issue before the season starts

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What if the Flames don’t hammer out a deal with Johnny until August 20th?

I can see a scenario where Johnny is unsigned and not traded tomorrow but I can’t see it being an issue before the season starts

What would change on August 20th that they couldn't agree to today or last week? The longer the negotiations take, the less incentive for Gaudreau to sign. It seems like when players get into their last year without a contract extension that most end up seeing things through to free agency. Landeskog re-signing in Denver seemed like a no-brainer a year ago but the longer you drag things out the better the odds of losing the player to free agency. For all we know they have a deal agreed on that will be announced later this week but if that doesn't happen then all bets are off.

[Royle9]

Eichel's injury concerns are warranted for sure, we're talking requiring a surgery not many pro athletes go through and only 1 has ever done if he goes the route he wants (floating disk) rather than the fusion of 2.

With that said, I think some are greatly undervaluing what Eichel is as a player. You have to factor in not only his numbers but also the fact he's played on a bottom barrel Buffalo team his entire career, Reinhart is the closest thing he's seen to a "star" forward on his line.

If the Flames are in fact interested and have done their homework on the injury/recovery and feel its worth it then I'm on board. However I feel the only way it makes sense to get Eichel is if we can lock Johnny up long term to play alongside Eichel for the next few years.

Eichel + Johnny would be magic, I'd wager you could throw just about anyone on that right side with the ability to stand in front of the net and profit.

Outside of that, getting Eichel without Johnny makes little sense to me at this point.