Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by JBR

With CMLC out, it doesn’t necessarily mean that CSEC will be leading the design phase. It would likely mean there will be another PM team to replace them.

But one that likely won't be as invested in how the arena fits into the fabric of the surrounding area.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Inverted bowl out? Is that due to the geological location (near two river basins)?

[calumniate]

Guess they're dealing with pandemic construction material prices now too

[Monahammer]

I didn't realize inverted bowl was still on the table. Shame that it didn't work out, I think it would have been really cool.

[monkeyman]

If Calgary Next is any indication, having CSEC in charge of a major project and incorporating it into other major infrastructure would be a huge mistake.
Disappointed to hear CMLC won't be involved.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

If Calgary Next is any indication,

I doubt the actual construction project will be designed in two hours with MS Paint. So that already leaves Calgary Next in the dust.

[powderjunkie]

gross.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am just excited to finally see an actual render at some point.

[Locke]

We need to hear from Muta.

According to him CalgaryNEXT was amazing, we really need his allegedly informed opinion about this project.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Locke

We need to hear from Muta.

According to him CalgaryNEXT was amazing, we really need his allegedly informed opinion about this project.

I think CalgaryNext would have been amazing.


Just terrible at lining up for what the City was pushing for, and terrible for costs... and infrastructure, and this and that... but that would have undoubtedly been kind of amazing, no?


Just hard to sell it by making it in paint. And even harder to sell it with everything that I vaguely remember them demanding.



Terrible for everybody except CSEC, but a pretty amazing building.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think CalgaryNext would have been amazing.


Just terrible at lining up for what the City was pushing for, and terrible for costs... and infrastructure, and this and that... but that would have undoubtedly been kind of amazing, no?


Just hard to sell it by making it in paint. And even harder to sell it with everything that I vaguely remember them demanding.



Terrible for everybody except CSEC, but a pretty amazing building.

So it was essentially the dumbest thing ever.

But it was amazing.

Hell, I should have become an architect, any idiot can sell that crap.

"You want an arena floating in the sky? Sure! Let me just fire up MS Paint we'll get that done up and see if any suckers bite!"

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I doubt the actual construction project will be designed in two hours with MS Paint. So that already leaves Calgary Next in the dust.

It was a horrible presentation. but even discounting that, the entire concept including the surrounding infrastructure was ill-conceived and showed a lack of insight and long-term implications outside of what was good for CSEC and what they wanted. I don't think they've suddenly become more altruistic and concerned with what's in the best interest of the city and it's residents and less with what's good for them and their bottom line. Which is fine for a business, but not who you want in charge of a major city project that could impact the resident's long after the team decides that the arena is no longer suitable and demand another new arena.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

It was a horrible presentation. but even discounting that, the entire concept including the surrounding infrastructure was ill-conceived and showed a lack of insight and long-term implications outside of what was good for CSEC and what they wanted. I don't think they've suddenly become more altruistic and concerned with what's in the best interest of the city and it's residents and less with what's good for them and their bottom line. Which is fine for a business, but not who you want in charge of a major city project that could impact the resident's long after the team decides that the arena is no longer suitable and demand another new arena.

I've seen 7th Graders put together better presentations.

Powerpoint isnt Rocket Science. If you want someone to gift you $1B you'd best blow their socks off.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Locke

So it was essentially the dumbest thing ever.

But it was amazing.

Hell, I should have become an architect, any idiot can sell that crap.

"You want an arena floating in the sky? Sure! Let me just fire up MS Paint we'll get that done up and see if any suckers bite!"

It would have been amazing if the city only had to pitch in 275M and CSEC took on all over runs related to the project. I believe that's where we are now with this arena. The risk equation is everything in this case and was fundamentally the issue with calgary next. Bad renderings aside...the project was a no go because of the creosote, the money the city had to put in and the high risk of overruns. The concept of a combined football stadium, arena and field house to rejuvenate a poor area in an amazing location was great I thought.

[getbak]

[getbak]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1419791944834715659

Not open in time for the Stampede in 2024, but will be in time for the hockey season.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by getbak

https://twitter.com/user/status/1419791944834715659

Not open in time for the Stampede in 2024, but will be in time for the hockey season.

* per the current proposed schedule.

In other words, probably the start of the 25/26 season.

[La Flames Fan]

Originally Posted by D as in David

I'll keep an open mind until the plans come out but my first thought is this isn't good.

CMLC did a great job on the EV but that was under the former President. Is the question of competence due to the new person/people at the top?

I don't think that has anything to do with it.

The President/CEO of CMLC (Kate Thompson) has been with the organization since 2013 and was VP of Development. She lead the East Village project.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by tkflames

It would have been amazing if the city only had to pitch in 275M and CSEC took on all over runs related to the project. I believe that's where we are now with this arena. The risk equation is everything in this case and was fundamentally the issue with calgary next. Bad renderings aside...the project was a no go because of the creosote, the money the city had to put in and the high risk of overruns. The concept of a combined football stadium, arena and field house to rejuvenate a poor area in an amazing location was great I thought.

The only reason it's a 'poor area' is the creosote. As you say it's an amazing location and has huge potential for tax revenue generation in the future.

It's probably presently generating as much (or more) direct revenue from the dealerships than they would from Cnext (as proposed). The surrounding real estate grift for CSEC would've been even better for them, though.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The only reason it's a 'poor area' is the creosote. As you say it's an amazing location and has huge potential for tax revenue generation in the future.

It's probably presently generating as much (or more) direct revenue from the dealerships than they would from Cnext (as proposed). The surrounding real estate grift for CSEC would've been even better for them, though.

When the city took over ownership of the west end they agreed to clean up the creosote problem. I have lived in Calgary since 1975 and nothing has been done, the land is valueless unless the city does it's job and has exactly zero tax revenue posibility. CSEC was basically forcing the issue and the city used every excuse to make sure it didn't happen so that they would never have to address the creosote problem.