Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[tkflames]

Eichel for the Hamonic package + one of Dube, Vali, Zary or Peltier


Lottery protected 1st+ 2nd that can become a first if the flames make it to the finals + another 2nd.


I.e. Eichel for 2 x 1sts and 2x 2nds (up to 3 x 1sts and 1 x 2nd) if it works out for the flames.

[Vinny01]

Tkachuk to a third team is the key in my opinion to making an Eichel deal work. Move Tkachuk in a futures heavy deal and shift those to Buffalo + the Flames 1st and 2nd and see if that closes the deal.

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Tkachuk to a third team is the key in my opinion to making an Eichel deal work. Move Tkachuk in a futures heavy deal and shift those to Buffalo + the Flames 1st and 2nd and see if that closes the deal.

Or see what Minnesota would pay for Monahan, and package those assets up

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

For one, it's weird to assume anyone else has actually watched Eichel besides you. Who is "we"? Does your group have a membership? Do you watch Buffalo games for fun? Seems weird.

We, as in the collective. The inference was that no one else was watching Buffalo games or seen Eichel play, which is false. Many people on this site have watched Buffalo and seen Eichel.

Two, from the *extremely limited* (because I am normal) Sabres games I have seen, and the less-limited number of articles I've read about Eichel, this doesn't match and seems like you're throwing out cliches to fill air. Eichel isn't a defensive forward, but his game isn't all "flash and dash"... unless you're just describing an elite offensive player who makes the guys around him better? He corsi numbers are tops on the team, his xGA/60 have improved year over year and ranked him as one of the better players for it last year.

Speaking in generalities about guys that are all flash and dash. But if you want to speak in specifics, no, Eichel does not make players around him better. The Sabres have got progressively worse, no matter who gets added to the mix to support Eichel. Did you miss where this is Buffalo's second 1st over all pick since Eichel arrived on the scene?

I don't think your Eichel take is on point. Is this another "watched every Florida Panthers game with Sam Bennett" situation where you just say you watch all the games? Honest question.

I watch teams that interest me. When there is some young player that is fresh on the scene, or a player being talked up, I do my best to actually watch the players so I can make an informed comment on their play, unlike yourself and the rest of the spreadsheet set. So Buffalo has been of interest to me because of Rasmus Dahlen and Dylan Cozens, and watching them numerous times over the past couple years has provided plenty of Jack Eichel sightings. The really cool thing about having an NHL package is being able to watch an early game and a late game, so you get to see players from all over the league. You should try it. Really helps you understand some of these conversations better than looking at a spreadsheet and trying to find meaning in numbers that don't model the game worth a damn.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Braden

Or see what Minnesota would pay for Monahan, and package those assets up

Flip Tkachuk for Eichel
Flip Monahan for Fiala

Talk about speed upgrade

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Ok I guess we cannot agree that Jack Eichel at 23-24 is better than Tyler Seguin/Mark Stone at 23-24.

Alright then this conversation is a non-starter.

Seguin and stone weren't traded at 23/24 . We also aren't talking trade value we are talking player value i.e. hockey performance

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You also can't call a player damaged goods without having any actual clue what the damage or prognosis is.

Seguin the last two seasons before he was traded: 0.77 P/GP
Stone the last two seasons before he was traded: 1.06 P/GP
Eichel the last two seasons before he was traded: 1.08 p/GP

Even if you just take their last season, which by all accounts Eichel was bad in, he still ranked more highly than Seguin.

He's ABSOLUTELY a better player than either of the two. Neither of them have ever come close to Eichel's best season (which we're just a year removed from), let alone before they were traded.

Eichel last season before traded: potential career limiting injury. Seguin was 21 and on the upswing , eichel is 24 and potentially broken + declining. Seems like similar value to me.

Edit: Eichel isn't damaged goods? So he isn't damaged or he isn't good? I'm pretty sure he's damaged, not sure if he will be good though ��

[442scotty]

Well, come on Brad…. We’re waiting! Quit #icking around lol. Announce the Gaudreau re-up already…

[Icon]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Well, come on Brad…. We’re waiting! Quit #icking around lol. Announce the Gaudreau re-up already…

In my headspace, Flames are at a standstill trying to get an Eichel trade sorted out, before they decide if they're extending Gaudreau, etc.

If we don't trade for Eichel, I wonder if that pumps the breaks and puts more guys on the market in a rebuild instead?

Would be a teetering-on-the-brink kind of stance to have, but then again, so might BT's job?

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Icon

In my headspace, Flames are at a standstill trying to get an Eichel trade sorted out, before they decide if they're extending Gaudreau, etc.

If we don't trade for Eichel, I wonder if that pumps the breaks and puts more guys on the market in a rebuild instead?

Would be a teetering-on-the-brink kind of stance to have, but then again, so might BT's job?

I am in the camp that a Gaudreau extension should be paired with an Eichel trade. That's how you sell Gaudreau to re-sign and you convince Eichel that he will have a steady linemate. I don't see a point in extending Gaudreau if we can't provide him a #1C.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Well, come on Brad…. We’re waiting! Quit #icking around lol. Announce the Gaudreau re-up already…

He can't sign until Wednesday.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

I am in the camp that a Gaudreau extension should be paired with an Eichel trade. That's how you sell Gaudreau to re-sign and you convince Eichel that he will have a steady linemate.

From the Flames perspective on keeping Johnny, and why he'd want to sign an extension, exactly. But Eichel doesn't get a say in where he's traded to, and Buffalo won't care what else the Flames are up to.

[Madman]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Well, come on Brad…. We’re waiting! Quit #icking around lol. Announce the Gaudreau re-up already…

[flambers]

Originally Posted by getbak

He can't sign until Wednesday.

Seth Jones was re-signed last week, he had 1 year left and would have been a UFA on July 1 2022

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Speaking in generalities about guys that are all flash and dash. But if you want to speak in specifics, no, Eichel does not make players around him better. The Sabres have got progressively worse, no matter who gets added to the mix to support Eichel. Did you miss where this is Buffalo's second 1st over all pick since Eichel arrived on the scene?

I watch teams that interest me. When there is some young player that is fresh on the scene, or a player being talked up, I do my best to actually watch the players so I can make an informed comment on their play, unlike yourself and the rest of the spreadsheet set. So Buffalo has been of interest to me because of Rasmus Dahlen and Dylan Cozens, and watching them numerous times over the past couple years has provided plenty of Jack Eichel sightings. The really cool thing about having an NHL package is being able to watch an early game and a late game, so you get to see players from all over the league. You should try it. Really helps you understand some of these conversations better than looking at a spreadsheet and trying to find meaning in numbers that don't model the game worth a damn.

Did you miss where Eichel doesn't play with *every* player on the team? One guy doesn't decide if a team is a contender or not. Neither does one line.

Again, no specifics about Eichel, just "the team got worse!" as though that's a measure of a player.

IDK man if you watch every Buffalo game, have at it. You also watch every Ottawa game, and Florida game, and watch Arizona whenever you can. Whenever a team or player comes up, you've watched all the games. It's impressive, so kudos to you I guess.

I just think it's weird that Eichel hasn't played since early March, and in that time you've gone from "would trade Tkachuk, Monahan, Hanifin, and a 1st for Eichel and Risto" or "Tkachuk, Lindholm, Hanifin, and a 1st for Eichel and Reinhart" to "EICHEL BAD DO NOT WANT! EVERYONE IS OBSESSED!" Like, what Buffalo games have you been watching the last two months? Clearly, they changed your mind.

Your read on Eichel doesn't track and you just seem to get more passionate about a position you randomly decided to take in the past few weeks.

Tell you what. Name a game you thought Eichel was particularly bad in and representative of the way you see Jack Eichel, and I'll go watch it. At least I'll be able to look for whatever it is you're seeing. I wouldn't want to be part of the lowly "spreadsheet set" after all, Excel is for nerds.

[AC]

Originally Posted by flambers

Seth Jones was re-signed last week, he had 1 year left and would have been a UFA on July 1 2022

Seth Jones hasn't officially signed yet either. They've just agreed to the contract.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1418709829569421314

[camm13]

Originally Posted by getbak

He can't sign until Wednesday.

Johnny is a contract extension, not a UFA signing. It's fine

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The problem with this argument is that the 2022 1st is going to be our best draft pick since Tkachuk. There is a small chance that it will be a generational talent.



That is a bad take. The 2022 draft is expected to be possibly the best ever. And according to a lot of people here (you included I think) the Flames are crap. So dismissing that pick as 'most likely turn into nothing' is way, way off the mark. Monahan, Bennett and Tkachuk are the top picks the Flames have ever had. If we miss the playoffs and draft in the top 10, we will be looking at someone in the Monahan, Tkachuk range. If we pick top 3 (very possible), we will be looking at the best draft pick the Flames have ever had.

But you and others are good with tossing it in, along with several other significant assets.

Too many people are all in with the 'Eichel is the only way out of mediocrity' miss-impression.

For me, and I think a lot of others, the only reasonable way out of mediocrity is a complete rebuild. But since we've had to accept that the Flames will not do this any time soon, then going all in on Eichel is only other way out of mediocrity.

If they aren't going to do the smart thing, they can at least do the bold thing.

[saillias]

So from the latest on Elliotte Friedman's hit with Steinberg today.

The team that seems to want Eichel the most is Minnesota. But they will have trouble making the money work with the huge buyouts they just did.

Anaheim is the team that everyone seems to think makes the most sense in terms of assets, prospect pool and fit but they aren't willing to pay up.

Montreal and also NYR seem to be trying to lowball the Sabres.

As for us, the Flames have been interested but Friedman sounds skeptical we have the pieces to do it.

The Risto return has probably emboldened Kevyn Adams in his ask. Steinberg mentioned in discussion with Logan Gordon he thinks the price will come down I don't really agree

[Ped]

Originally Posted by camm13

Johnny is a contract extension, not a UFA signing. It's fine

Jones was traded to the Hawks, where he would have been in the same situation as Johnny.

Doesn't matter the player or the status, you can't sign an extension more than year ahead of time.