Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Outside of Draisaitl, McDavid has help lol?

Despite what Oiler fans tell you he plays with Drai most of the time

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Despite what Oiler fans tell you he plays with Drai most of the time

Don’t see that changing…… Hyman will probably play with Nothing-Happens and Hellomoto….

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Outside of Draisaitl, McDavid has help lol?

Yeah, Reinhart + Olosfsson >> Kassian + Yamamoto.

The Sabres problem isn’t that they don’t have other superstars playing on a line with Eichel. The problem is they don’t have any depth.

[InternationalVillager]

No one has brought up RNH yet? Nice.

Sam Reinhart is a terrible hockey player. He is a -97 over his career. Yes - the Sabres are a poor defensive team as a whole but he was a contributor to that.

Jack Eichel is career -69 however the past few seasons, he has been a lot better. He's been surrounded by players who are boat anchors at even-strength and simply rely on his ability to drive play.

The point here isn't to say that Eichel = McDavid. The point is to say that Pair Eichel with Gaudreau/Lindholm/Tkachuk and you likely have a 90-100 point player on a consistent basis.

[dino7c]

McDavid is on the ice for 70 some percent of Drai points ..2 mins each PP, any time they are losing, empty net on either end. McDavid plays with Drai who is better than anyone Eichel has played with. Eichel is also better defensively than either player.

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

No one has brought up RNH yet? Nice.

Sam Reinhart is a terrible hockey player. He is a -97 over his career. Yes - the Sabres are a poor defensive team as a whole but he was a contributor to that.

Jack Eichel is career -69 however the past few seasons, he has been a lot better. He's been surrounded by players who are boat anchors at even-strength and simply rely on his ability to drive play.

The point here isn't to say that Eichel = McDavid. The point is to say that Pair Eichel with Gaudreau/Lindholm/Tkachuk and you likely have a 90-100 point player on a consistent basis.

I dream of a day where we can discuss professional hockey players without hyperbole like this

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Eichel's value is at least 50% hype because he was considered a phenom that only went #2 overall because he was overshadowed by McDavid. There seems to be a lot of resistance to the idea that he did not turn out to be a generational player. He is a VERY good center, like top 10 in the league probably, but he is not a close 2nd to McDavid no matter how much people want him to be.

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Wait. You're hoping that we get back an 80% Jack Eichel? Do we get a discount on his salary that is reflective in a 20% drop in performance and efficacy? Because an 80% Jack Eichel is NOT worth $10M a season. This whole Eichel thing just continues to get worse and worse. Dump a massive number of assets this team can't afford to lose, risk that the guy may never play again because of the surgery he needs, and then stare down a 20% decrease in performance if he recovers? Hard no.

I said 80%+. Crosby exceeded his previous 100% (obviously not something to bank on)...his worst injury years were age 23-25.

Bure scored 51, 58, and 59 after knee and neck injuries.

Eichel at 85% might still be our best C since Joe if not Gilmour.

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Just offhand, but IIRC Eriksson was a frequently desired trade target around here prior to being moved for Seguin. This was a player with a good amount of value and seemed consistent. Almost like Filip Forsberg? Easy to look back and say the trade was lopsided, but at the time it was not as such.

In BOS he had bad year, okay year, then very good year to land his big contract.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Stars? I dunno. Bossy was 29. So was Rick Martin. Deadmarsh was a potential star. Lots of midrange players though - like Ferland (maybe).

It's kinda my point...25 year olds recover better than 29+ year olds. Even Deadmarsh had a resurgent 01-02 season where he scored 29-62 in 76gp and played for the US at Olympics.

Past injuries will accelerate father time, but we'd be acquiring him for age 24-28.

[Dajazz]

It is like everyone forget the cost of Eichel.

Is Eichel 4m and four blue chip assets better than Monahan?

I’m guessing the cost is Monahan, 2x1st and/or Pelletier/Zary.

Stay away Brad, stay away.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

It is like everyone forget the cost of Eichel.

Is Eichel 4m and four blue chip assets better than Monahan?

I’m guessing the cost is Monahan, 2x1st and/or Pelletier/Zary.

Stay away Brad, stay away.

Do we hope and pray Bedard falls into our lap? If he doesn't, then what?

30 MORE years of mediocrity?

[colbym72]

The Eichel cost will be crazy but I think when you have an opportunity to get a legit top centre you take it. Look at the Stanley Cup winners from the past 20 years. The majority have legit hall of fame no doubt about it centreman. Sometimes two of them. It is a risk worth taking.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

The point here isn't to say that Eichel = McDavid. The point is to say that Pair Eichel with Gaudreau/Lindholm/Tkachuk and you likely have a 90-100 point player on a consistent basis.

The number of players who has scored over 90 and 100 points in the last decade, by season, and not using PPG as an equalizer because you only get points you actually generate.

2020-21 (56 games!)

100 points - McDavid
90 Points - None

2019-20

100 points - Draisaitl
90 Points - McDavid, Pasternak, Panarin, McKinnon

2018-2019

100 points - Kucherov, McDavid, Kane, Draisaitl, Marchand, Crosby
90 Points - McKinnon, Gaudreau, Stamkos, Barkov, Marner, Point, Huberdeau, Wheeler

2017-18

100 points - McDavid, Giroux, Kucherov
90 Points - Malkin, McKinnon, Hall, Kopitar, Kessel, Wheeler

2016-17

100 points - McDavid
90 Points - None

2015-16

100 points - Kane
90 Points - None

2014-15

100 points - None
90 Points - None

2013-14

100 points - Crosby
90 Points - None

2012-13 (48 game schedule)

100 points - None
90 Points - None

2011-12

100 points - Malkin
90 Points - Stamkos, Giroux

The likelihood of Eichel being 90-100 point player is extremely slim. The only time a Flames player has achieved that loft heights was when the team was the 2nd best in the league. The only player to reach these heights consistenly is McDavid. Don't see that happening for anyone on this team, especially after carving out what it would take to get Eichel in the 1st place.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

It is like everyone forget the cost of Eichel.

Is Eichel 4m and four blue chip assets better than Monahan?

I’m guessing the cost is Monahan, 2x1st and/or Pelletier/Zary.

Stay away Brad, stay away.

If you do it for Monahan, 1st and Zary/Pelletier you pull the trigger. Otherwise have to think long and hard about it

[TheIronMaiden]

I'd rather the Flames take a swing and fail then float around for the next 4 years.

[Number 39]

I'm torn but at least Eichel ends the stay in the mushy middle where the Flames seem to perpetually dwell. If he's healthy they finally get a #1C, if he's not it really forces a rebuild.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

It is like everyone forget the cost of Eichel.

Is Eichel 4m and four blue chip assets better than Monahan?

I’m guessing the cost is Monahan, 2x1st and/or Pelletier/Zary.

Stay away Brad, stay away.

You have to look at it from a roster perspective.

You replace Monahan with Eichel.

Then you take the two firsts + Pelletier/Zary - do some voodoo math calcs and determine what the likelihoods of those players being NHL Star players is. Picks and prospects are all great but they rarely develop into impactful NHL players. You take the percentages. I believe for a first round pick, it is 50% chance that they will be a regular NHL player.

So 3 assets @ 1rp value = 1.5 NHL Regular.

Monahan + 1.5 NHL Regular = Eichel?

I say Yes.

The problem with Flames trading picks in the past is that they don't use them to trade for anyone impactful. They just trade them for depth D's or forwards where having another bullet in the chamber might be just better off for the organization.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Only one that holds water there is Thornton.

Tyler Seguin wasn't nearly as hyped as Eichel going into his respective draft (yes, I remember the Taylor vs Tyler debates and that he was quite hyped, but not on the same level as Eichel) or as good as Eichel at the time of his trade.

Mark Stone, who I think is arguably the best RW in the game, was 26 and a pending UFA. Also don't think he's on the same level as Eichel when he's at his best.

Pronger was over 30.

You said best player in 15 -20 years. You are dead wrong. Now you are moving the goal posts. No one said anything about age. Is Eichels injury just a non-factor? You talk about eichels draft potential vs. Seguin draft potential instead of what Eichel is now and what Seguin was at 21. You say thing like Eichel is better than Stone (if he's a 100%) which he isn't!. All those players were better than Eichel is now. Pronger was 30? So, at least he didn't have major neck surgery. Remember what happened to Langkow?

[AC]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I'd rather the Flames take a swing and fail then float around for the next 4 years.

Originally Posted by Number 39

I'm torn but at least Eichel ends the stay in the mushy middle where the Flames seem to perpetually dwell. If he's healthy they finally get a #1C, if he's not it really forces a rebuild.

That's what it comes down to for me.

If we get Eichel, it's boom or bust.

If we don't, we're likely continuing to tread water for a couple more seasons before we finally start a rebuild when faced with players leaving via free agency while not being quite bad enough to be in the running for either lottery these next 2 years.

After bringing Sutter in, we're not going to do a tear down these next 2 seasons anyways. May as well go big then IMO.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

15-20 years ? Tyler Seguin, Mark Stone, Joe Thorton, Chris Pronger etc.
Hyperbole much? The only way that statement makes sense is if Eichel has yet to peak, but its more likely he is on an early decline.

The impact that Eichel could have on the Flames franchise could be as much as a Thornton/Pronger.

Eichel is a better player at his age than Stone/Seguin were. Hands down.

Have the people here not watched him play? He's a beast.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

The impact that Eichel could have on the Flames franchise could be as much as a Thornton/Pronger.

Eichel is a better player at his age than Stone/Seguin were. Hands down.

Have the people here not watched him play? He's a beast.

Nobody has watched him play lately. So.....

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

The impact that Eichel could have on the Flames franchise could be as much as a Thornton/Pronger.

Eichel is a better player at his age than Stone/Seguin were. Hands down.

Have the people here not watched him play? He's a beast.

It all comes down to the neck injury...... that's the wildcard. Eichel 100% healthy is very good good, Eichel with a continuous nagging neck injury (or issues after the surgery).... maybe not so much.