Arena Negotiation Discussion v2

[Mull]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

This aged poorly quickly.

Wasn't yesterday just an announcement of the approval of the plan, unlocking the provincial/federal government contribution previously declared (the amounts remaining the same), or did the Fed/Province increase amounts?

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

This aged poorly quickly.

Originally Posted by Mull

Wasn't yesterday just an announcement of the approval of the plan, unlocking the provincial/federal government contribution previously declared (the amounts remaining the same), or did the Fed/Province increase amounts?

Just a re-announcement of previously committed funds (feds) and approval of funding that was already promised (province). No new money yesterday. Would have been nice to see Trudeau announce additional funding yesterday to allow construction of what has now been cut from the project - ie north portion, or at least to 16th Ave. Or push it all the way to Seton too.

[carmenshoes]

Does this arena deal look like an uprise or does it look like bad memory?

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

OK, but are the other points accurate, or more accurate than what the poster I quoted spits out daily on this board?

Go run the numbers on property taxes in Calgary for when Nenshi came in and what they are now.

Convenient things to ignore, but considerations that need to be included before you come back:

- Inflation
- The complete collapse of the downtown tax base due to an industry deciding to roll over and die

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Go run the numbers on property taxes in Calgary for when Nenshi came in and what they are now.

Convenient things to ignore, but considerations that need to be included before you come back:

- Inflation
- The complete collapse of the downtown tax base due to an industry deciding to roll over and die

And then compare them to other large municipalities in Canada.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Go run the numbers on property taxes in Calgary for when Nenshi came in and what they are now.

Convenient things to ignore, but considerations that need to be included before you come back:

- Inflation
- The complete collapse of the downtown tax base due to an industry deciding to roll over and die

Hmm...in fairness, its not as though this was 'Plan A.' They had a lot of help.

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1419730258572431360

[Monahammer]

boo, CMLC out really harms the public's stake in the project IMO.

[InglewoodFan]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

boo, CMLC out really harms the public's stake in the project IMO.

Yeah, that is pretty disappointing. I was originally skeptical, but I have really come around on CMLC being a competent PM and bringing a lot of value to the city. I really hope we don't look back on this as the point that any public benefit fell off the table.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

boo, CMLC out really harms the public's stake in the project IMO.

I have zero knowledge about how the project was organized/run, but losing CMLC may speed the project up. Unfortunately that will probably be because (I think) CMLC would have really pushed to ensure a high quality design aesthetic. If CSEC is making design decisions, I fear for quality of design. Aesthetic sensibility is the first place most clients are willing to cut costs.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by InglewoodFan

Yeah, that is pretty disappointing. I was originally skeptical, but I have really come around on CMLC being a competent PM and bringing a lot of value to the city. I really hope we don't look back on this as the point that any public benefit fell off the table.

My insiders are telling me just the opposite - they were far from a competent manager.

This is a big step forward.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

https://twitter.com/user/status/1419730258572431360

At this point, paying an extra $12.5 million to not have to worry about any additional costs seems somewhat reasonable.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

At this point, paying an extra $12.5 million to not have to worry about any additional costs seems somewhat reasonable.

Apparently that $12.5 million extra was already in the original agreement. $25 million of additional costs were agreed to be split 50/50 if it was needed.

[Freeway]

Can confirm, there was a clause that stated up to $25m of eligible cost overruns would be split 50/50 by city/CSEC.


City has no ability to throw the brakes on with CMLC out, but their obligations to project are also very clearly defined now, so it seems like a reasonable trade-off.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

I have zero knowledge about how the project was organized/run, but losing CMLC may speed the project up. Unfortunately that will probably be because (I think) CMLC would have really pushed to ensure a high quality design aesthetic. If CSEC is making design decisions, I fear for quality of design. Aesthetic sensibility is the first place most clients are willing to cut costs.

With CMLC out, it doesn’t necessarily mean that CSEC will be leading the design phase. It would likely mean there will be another PM team to replace them.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by JBR

With CMLC out, it doesn’t necessarily mean that CSEC will be leading the design phase. It would likely mean there will be another PM team to replace them.

I certainly hope so. Otherwise we may wind up having a bright red arena with blue flag patches all over it.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I certainly hope so. Otherwise we may wind up having a bright red arena with blue flag patches all over it.

I’m picturing Murray Edwards on MS Paint or his Etch-a-Sketch

[D as in David]

I'll keep an open mind until the plans come out but my first thought is this isn't good.

CMLC did a great job on the EV but that was under the former President. Is the question of competence due to the new person/people at the top?

[getbak]

Honestly, I don't know enough about what CMLC does on a project like this, but they're still running the overall Rivers District development and the city is still involved in the arena project, so I can't see it becoming some sort of massive divergence from the original plan.

I also don't see any incentive for the Flames to not want the building to integrate with the overall plan for the district.



Also, based on the comments from a couple of weeks ago when this first broke, it didn't sound like CMLC was involved in the design work on the project up to this point anyway. They wouldn't have become involved until the project was ready to start construction and then, they'd be executing the agreed-upon design between the City and CSEC.

[sureLoss]

Inverted bowl design is out

https://twitter.com/user/status/1419746720452333575