Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Eichel has 12 more points since 2015/16 season than Monahan, who is #20 scoring center in the league. Where is Lindholm, 30th. Recent bias doesn't change the fact that Monahan produces at a point that is close or better than the guys you mention.

Firstly, you're taking into account Eichel's rookie year and excluding Monahan's. Secondly Monahan does not generate the offence on his lines, Gaudreau does. Eichel generates his offence.

Comparing Eichel and Monahan is silly. Eichel is clearly a legit #1 centre, and a top 10 centre in the league. The only downside to Eichel is the injury risk.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Eichel has 12 more points since 2015/16 season than Monahan, who is #20 scoring center in the league. Where is Lindholm, 30th. Recent bias doesn't change the fact that Monahan produces at a point that is close or better than the guys you mention.

Monahan sucks more than the stats show.

He's a one dimensional player. He can score goals if he gets the perfect set up, but is average at best in most other aspects of the game. He's a modern day Ryan Smyth.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Eichel has 12 more points since 2015/16 season than Monahan, who is #20 scoring center in the league. Where is Lindholm, 30th. Recent bias doesn't change the fact that Monahan produces at a point that is close or better than the guys you mention.

Monahan has 6 less goals than Nate... basically the same player

[Braden]

If Johnny resigns I think it helps drastically with american players wanting to be here. Would an American player, specifically a center (Eichel) really not want to play with arguably 2 of the best american wingers in Tkachuk and Gaudreau? I believe they can create an environment for americans just as they have done with swedes.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Lindros, Lemieux, Kariya, Crosby. Bure. Forsberg. Gary Roberts (maybe a little less than 80%).

All suffered career-threatening injuries in their mid 20s and came back to 80%+ of their pre-injury form for 4+ years.

Lafontaine, Neely, and Eric Daze had shorter resurgences, but were still great for a while. Pretty sure Daze is the only one who was effectively done before age 30.

I'm struggling to think of many other guys who were fully out in their mid 20s. Dan Blackburn? I'm sure there are others, but the odds seem to be in JE's favour...

I'm not saying he is done - never said anything like that at all.

I am saying he is not the budding generational player he was touted to be in 2015 - even without the injury.

WITH the injury risk, he is not at all certain to be a top 10 C in the league. More likely to be somewhere around what Monahan was at his peak (yes, very different players, just comparing where I think he might rank as a C going forward). Maybe between 5 and 10 at best.

[dino7c]

Between the 5 and 10 best centers on earth? dO nOT wANt

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Between the 5 and 10 best centers on earth? dO nOT wANt

it's a question of price

and the price some people are suggesting is asinine

[dino7c]

I would rather pay a really high price for a great player than a high price for at best average ones like certain other teams in western Canada

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

it's a question of price

and the price some people are suggesting is asinine

Which prices are unreasonable? I frankly don't see too many proposals that are out to lunch here.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Braden

If Johnny resigns I think it helps drastically with american players wanting to be here. Would an American player, specifically a center (Eichel) really not want to play with arguably 2 of the best american wingers in Tkachuk and Gaudreau? I believe they can create an environment for americans just as they have done with swedes.

I don't believe that would be a factor

Some players simply don't want to be in the spot light that Canadian market would have

Other don't like the 40% tax.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Between the 5 and 10 best centers on earth? dO nOT wANt

Eichel is an excellent player, when fully healthy. He has a very serious injury, the question is if he ever is able to play at that level again.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flambers

I don't believe that would be a factor

Some players simply don't want to be in the spot light that Canadian market would have

Other don't like the 40% tax.

The tax issue isn’t as district coming from NY state, I think.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Which prices are unreasonable? I frankly don't see too many proposals that are out to lunch here.

Tkachuk + Valimaki + 2022 1st is too much , IMO

And many of the proposals have been even more, including 2 1sts

[dino7c]

Eichel isn't a UFA

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

Firstly, you're taking into account Eichel's rookie year and excluding Monahan's. Secondly Monahan does not generate the offence on his lines, Gaudreau does. Eichel generates his offence.

Comparing Eichel and Monahan is silly. Eichel is clearly a legit #1 centre, and a top 10 centre in the league. The only downside to Eichel is the injury risk.

He's also ignoring the fact that Eichel has 12 more points in 60 less games over that time span.

And, given Eichel's average P/GP, we can expect that had they played the same amount, Eichel would have a 70 point lead over Monahan... good for the 5th best scoring center in the entire league over that time, behind only McDavid, Drai, Crosby, and MacKinnon.

Overall I'm not sure why people have to go ditch to ditch or trash one player to raise another up. Things can be true simultaneously. Eichel produces like an elite center and at a much higher rate than Monahan ever has. That isn't a shot against Monahan, who is also very good (and much better than those who have soured on him give him credit for).

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Tkachuk + Valimaki + 2022 1st is too much , IMO

And many of the proposals have been even more, including 2 1sts

Monahan + 2022 1st + Zary/Pelletier

If that doesn’t get it done, which it won’t, walk away.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

Eichel is an excellent player, when fully healthy. He has a very serious injury, the question is if he ever is able to play at that level again.

Is Tkachuk even gonna be an 80-90 point player to justify his contract? There is always risk

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Is Tkachuk even gonna be an 80-90 point player to justify his contract? There is always risk

I would argue health risk is a significant more risk than performance risk. Performance can be changed by different roles, offensive schemes etc. Health hinders performance regardless of the scenario

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Tkachuk + Valimaki + 2022 1st is too much , IMO

And many of the proposals have been even more, including 2 1sts

So a top line scoring winger that has never elevated his game when needed the most, a bottom pairing defenceman with his own health issues that may never amount to much and a first round pick who may potentially turn into a Jack Eichel, or may turn into Emile Poirier, Sven Baertschi or Greg Nemisz is too much for one of the top 10 Centres on the planet?

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Is Tkachuk even gonna be an 80-90 point player to justify his contract? There is always risk

He can be if he spends time stapled to Eichel. Hell skinner scored 40 goals.