Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Roberts also had the surgery the surgery the Sabres want Eichel to have (fusion), which he is balking at. So those two are going to be hard to contrast.

True, but Eichel is 24 and conservative treatment can be very effective for younger patients. Roberts was pushing 30 when his injury occurred, so his ability to recover with conservative treatment was far less likely, hence the surgery.

The neck issue doesn't scare me off Eichel at all. He's too talented.

[Harry Lime]

Mentioned earlier in the thread, but the surgery Eichel wants to do is fairly new and has been spearheaded in the UFC to some decent success. The benefit of disc replacement surgery is that you should be able to regain full capacity of movement. The traditional surgery is fusion.

The gamble to an acquiring team is that if they allow the surgery and Eichel comes back 100%, they win the lottery. If Eichel doesn't have the surgery, or if he has fusion, players have never come back with the same level of production. Buffalo denying the surgery means that they are effectively trading this version of Eichel, which is about 80%. Their 'ask' has been for a fully healthy Eichel, which is why teams have balked.

Also, surgery and recovery takes months. You could be in a Kucherov situation.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

The neck issue doesn't scare me off Eichel at all. He's too talented.

Scares me. Worked with a cop who had the surgery Eichel wants. Wasn't as successful as he hoped and he was forced to take a medical retirement. You just never know with the spine and disks.

[Sofa GM]

The neck issue makes Eichel a hard no, I think everyone is going to be shocked at what the actual return will be for him.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Scares me. Worked with a cop who had the surgery Eichel wants. Wasn't as successful as he hoped and he was forced to take a medical retirement. You just never know with the spine and disks.

Anecdotal, so it doesn't sway me too much.

Great, now you've given me a project to research the effectiveness of this surgery. I'm on vacation dammit!

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think it is fairly easy to see with Edmonton. Despite losing Gio the Oilers still have a far worse blueline than Calgary who as of right now have lost Barrie and Larson with only Keith replacing him.

I also would be shocked if Mike Smith replicated his stellar season and fully expect Markstrom to be much better next year.

Outside of McDrai it is still a trash team.

Lots of moves still to happen though so really almost pointless to talk about which teams are better until they make their moves

Say it all you want, and I do agree that Edmonton is thin, but there is no basis for Flames fans to suggest we are better than the Oilers right now. The overconfidence of our fanbase boggles the mind, almost like clockwork with the offseason and it's like this team suddenly goes from mediocre to elite every year.

If the roster is overhauled fairly significantly it's possible the team is better than Edmonton in a few weeks, but going into another season with nearly the same forward group puts this team safely behind most of the Canadian teams once again.

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Anecdotal, so it doesn't sway me too much.

Great, now you've given me a project to research the effectiveness of this surgery. I'm on vacation dammit!

Where does one take a vacation from Florida?
Saskatchewan?

[---Hatrick---]

The particular fighter that had this surgery in the UFC is also a shell of his former self. This could be due to him aging out past his fighting prime more than to do with the surgery however.
I suppose the fact that he was able to get back in there at the highest level and fight is promising.
Now he is healing a broken tibia and fibula… Brutal injury luck for that guy

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

The overconfidence of our fanbase boggles the mind, almost like clockwork with the offseason and it's like this team suddenly goes from mediocre to elite every year.

Just from reading the posts I don't think anyone here is overconfident about this group as it sits now.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

Where does one take a vacation from Florida?
Saskatchewan?

Wherever it's not hot as balls and I don't lose a pound of sweat from being outside for 10 minutes.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Say it all you want, and I do agree that Edmonton is thin, but there is no basis for Flames fans to suggest we are better than the Oilers right now. The overconfidence of our fanbase boggles the mind, almost like clockwork with the offseason and it's like this team suddenly goes from mediocre to elite every year..

The Oilers are 1 injury away, to McDavid or Draisatl, from being a lottery team. Is there one player on the Flames that if removed have that impact? The only one that I can remotely think of would be Markstrom. Oilers are pretenders.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Mentioned earlier in the thread, but the surgery Eichel wants to do is fairly new and has been spearheaded in the UFC to some decent success. The benefit of disc replacement surgery is that you should be able to regain full capacity of movement. The traditional surgery is fusion.

The gamble to an acquiring team is that if they allow the surgery and Eichel comes back 100%, they win the lottery. If Eichel doesn't have the surgery, or if he has fusion, players have never come back with the same level of production. Buffalo denying the surgery means that they are effectively trading this version of Eichel, which is about 80%. Their 'ask' has been for a fully healthy Eichel, which is why teams have balked.

Also, surgery and recovery takes months. You could be in a Kucherov situation.

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Mentioned earlier in the thread, but the surgery Eichel wants to do is fairly new and has been spearheaded in the UFC to some decent success. The benefit of disc replacement surgery is that you should be able to regain full capacity of movement. The traditional surgery is fusion.

The gamble to an acquiring team is that if they allow the surgery and Eichel comes back 100%, they win the lottery. If Eichel doesn't have the surgery, or if he has fusion, players have never come back with the same level of production. Buffalo denying the surgery means that they are effectively trading this version of Eichel, which is about 80%. Their 'ask' has been for a fully healthy Eichel, which is why teams have balked.

Also, surgery and recovery takes months. You could be in a Kucherov situation.

Which is a great situation if the team can acquire eichel without giving up Gaudreau, tkachuk, lindholm, or mangiapane. If the team can bolster its line up enough to be a playoff team without eichel in the lineup, adding a healthy eichel that spends the last two months practicing with the team in time for playoffs would turn the team into a contender in the west.

Gaudreau-eichel-x
Tkachuk-lindholm-mangiapane
Pelletier-backlund-phillips
Lucic-Pitlick-Ritchie

I’m assuming Dube + Zary + 1st round pick (12th overall) has to be included in the trade.


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[howard_the_duck]

If it’s a Kucherov situation, with Eichel out most of the year and the assets to acquire him (minus him in lineup) making us plausibly worse next year, that is an interesting scenario to consider as well.

You’d have quite possibly a lottery team in the Flames (read: Shane Wright potential) AND a returning Eichel. That would be a hell of a foundation.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by ---Hatrick---

The particular fighter that had this surgery in the UFC is also a shell of his former self. This could be due to him aging out past his fighting prime more than to do with the surgery however.
I suppose the fact that he was able to get back in there at the highest level and fight is promising.
Now he is healing a broken tibia and fibula… Brutal injury luck for that guy

I believe Peyton Manning had this surgery as well.

[NewFan]

I think we need really good C or RW and one a big veteran D who can play against faster and skilled forwards of Oilers and Canucks.
I hope we can trade Monahan for the D and sign Landeskog as FA or Trade for Eichel or Toews and sign FA D.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Anecdotal, so it doesn't sway me too much.

Great, now you've given me a project to research the effectiveness of this surgery. I'm on vacation dammit!

Off term? Shouldn't you be doing some CTEs?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Say it all you want, and I do agree that Edmonton is thin, but there is no basis for Flames fans to suggest we are better than the Oilers right now. The overconfidence of our fanbase boggles the mind, almost like clockwork with the offseason and it's like this team suddenly goes from mediocre to elite every year.

If the roster is overhauled fairly significantly it's possible the team is better than Edmonton in a few weeks, but going into another season with nearly the same forward group puts this team safely behind most of the Canadian teams once again.

So because we are better than the Oilers we are elite? I don’t think anyone said that anywhere?

Edmonton rode a year of hot goaltending from a 39 year old to a playoff sweep. They had among the highest shooting % and best save % in the division. Outside of 2 incredible players I don’t like that roster. Nurse took a step but in my opinion Nuge took a step back.

In my opinion let’s let the dust settle before we talk about which team is better and where the Flames stand.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

If it’s a Kucherov situation, with Eichel out most of the year and the assets to acquire him (minus him in lineup) making us plausibly worse next year, that is an interesting scenario to consider as well.

You’d have quite possibly a lottery team in the Flames (read: Shane Wright potential) AND a returning Eichel. That would be a hell of a foundation.

Being terrible is no guarantee of getting that 1st overall pick. Just say no to tanking.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Wherever it's not hot as balls and I don't lose a pound of sweat from being outside for 10 minutes.

Stay away from Saskatchewan then

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by NewFan

I think we need really good C or RW and one a big veteran D who can play against faster and skilled forwards of Oilers and Canucks.
I hope we can trade Monahan for the D and sign Landeskog as FA or Trade for Eichel or Toews and sign FA D.

I don’t think we have a hope of signing Landeskog, if Zach Hyman gets $5.5MM Landeskog will get $8-9MM and it’s been stated the Blues are all in on him already. Unfortunately there isn’t any easy solutions to the problems we have. Going for Eichel depletes our supporting cast and assets so badly and couple that with the injury risk doesn’t seem like the right move.

I come back to a post I made about something I read around Carolinas interest in Tkachuk with it being proposed that something around Necas and Teravainen being the return. Necas is a budding number 1 center, and Teravainen is a great complimentary scoring winger. That is just one example but I think we need to be looking at solutions that we can develop to fill our needs. We are unable, due to lack of assets, to buy these solutions and still be able to be a competitive team.