Renewed passenger rail service between Banff and Calgary?

[Fuzz]

Yes, if I had Twitter, I'd ask to see the math on that.

[HockeyIlliterate]

For whatever it is worth, I like rail more than bus for one very simple reason:

It is much easier to figure out where your stop is, especially as a tourist.

With rail, you know exactly where your stop is and when to get on or off.

With bus, it may be easy to figure out where to get on, but getting off can be a bit more complicated, especially if you don’t know the area or if the bus signage is not displaying real time information (which often happens).

Plus, rail is usually cleaner and you are at separated waiting areas. Waiting for a bus out in a semi-enclosed structure tends to suck and you end up smelling like pollution and sweat.

[_Q_]

I've rented a vehicle, taken train and bus on all my travels. I would say that I would chose the train 10 times out of 10 if given the choice, particularly when I'm outside of North America. Taking the Bus is OK if you really want to see a place and have no other way of getting there, but it feels really crappy most of the time compared to high speed rail.

[Nancy]

Ryan Robb, CEO of the Stoney Tribal Association, was on CBC Radio yesterday saying that the band has not been consulted on the project, and that there could potentially be some right of way issues through the Morley reserve that would require negotiation, referring to the deal that was required for the Ring Road.

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio...ve-train-route

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Nancy

Ryan Robb, CEO of the Stoney Tribal Association, was on CBC Radio yesterday saying that the band has not been consulted on the project, and that there could potentially be some right of way issues through the Morley reserve that would require negotiation, referring to the deal that was required for the Ring Road.

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio...ve-train-route

So it’s not going to happen.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Nancy

Ryan Robb, CEO of the Stoney Tribal Association, was on CBC Radio yesterday saying that the band has not been consulted on the project, and that there could potentially be some right of way issues through the Morley reserve that would require negotiation, referring to the deal that was required for the Ring Road.

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio...ve-train-route

I had assumed that was why there was a stop in Morley, but if they haven't got that nailed down then I'm glad I didn't take Slivers bet.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

Jeff Davison is campaigning on this now.

Not a fan of his stance on the green line but this would be a silver lining if he wins the mayor’s seat. Very interesting to see him make the comparison to the stampede (3x the economic benefit!). Pretty clear he sees the $$ signs… gotta pay for that new arena somehow!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1417553343132561410

This would be the worst way to do an airport LRT connection. Airport LRTs are used significantly by people working at the airport. To create a system where Calgary transit and airport link are operated by separate entities really undermines one of the primary benefits of an airport link.

In addition I’d assume that any Train would ensure to obtain a non-compete agreement from the city ensuring they are the only option for train transit from the airport as having two services would canabaloze each other.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by sleepingmoose

It's honestly not even really a municipal issue - it's a Federal and Provincial one. So what he thinks or campaigns on doesn't really matter.

It wouldn’t be the first time someone campaigned without understanding the job or the limits of authority.

[Northendzone]

Lol @ “it could”….or it could not.

It’d love to see the underlying math on the $1.2 billion……

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

The question should be, how much money has the Waterous' donated to the UCP

Who cares? It’s not like he’s the first guy to ever lobby government by political donation.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Who cares? It’s not like he’s the first guy to ever lobby government by political donation.

I guess not you lol. One should question the actions of this government and who stands to benefit from them....

[mrkajz44]

I'm still trying to understand how any sort of voodoo math would show $1.2B of annual benefit to a train. Where is this money coming from? Wouldn't a successful train just move money that would have been spent in Calgary out to Banff? Or are they assuming more people would come visit than otherwise wound and some of that money is spent in Calgary?

Just makes no sense.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

I'm still trying to understand how any sort of voodoo math would show $1.2B of annual benefit to a train. Where is this money coming from? Wouldn't a successful train just move money that would have been spent in Calgary out to Banff? Or are they assuming more people would come visit than otherwise wound and some of that money is spent in Calgary?

Just makes no sense.

Isn't the thinking that currently tourists arriving at the airport:

-Grab their rental car and drive out to the mountains immediately
-Hop on the Brewster tour buses right from the airport to Banff

With the train I'm assuming the idea is a ticket/package that has at least an overnight in Calgary downtown, before continuing on to the mountains. Or just by the very existence of the train and a stop downtown people would be more inclined to spend a day or two in Calgary and the attractions in the core before heading west.

[Fuzz]

I'm not about to math it out, but a quick glance at the Alberta tourism dollars will tell you that number is totally out to lunch.

https://www.alberta.ca/alberta-visitor-profiles.aspx

Also, Banff gets about 4 million visitors a year, about half of which are international. Lets pretend you could capture every international visitor and extract $500 from them in Calgary. That gets you a billion. According to this:

https://calgaryherald.com/news/postp...nal-visitation

International visitors to Banff spend on average $1100. So even $500 sounds like a stretch, and that's capturing EVERY visitor. Aww crap, I just mathed it out. The numbers are bull####, and buddy needs to get called out on it. I despise fake numbers being tossed out like this in an attempt to get public support or opposition for something. Use real numbers, or STFU.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm not about to math it out, but a quick glance at the Alberta tourism dollars will tell you that number is totally out to lunch.

https://www.alberta.ca/alberta-visitor-profiles.aspx

Also, Banff gets about 4 million visitors a year, about half of which are international. Lets pretend you could capture every international visitor and extract $500 from them in Calgary. That gets you a billion. According to this:

https://calgaryherald.com/news/postp...nal-visitation

International visitors to Banff spend on average $1100. So even $500 sounds like a stretch, and that's capturing EVERY visitor. Aww crap, I just mathed it out. The numbers are bull####, and buddy needs to get called out on it. I despise fake numbers being tossed out like this in an attempt to get public support or opposition for something. Use real numbers, or STFU.

So making it easier, cheaper, faster and more enjoyable to get out to the mountains will have no affect on the number of visitors coming through the airport?

Banff is great, but all other things being equal, there are tons of other mountain towns around the planet. Why visit Banff if the only way to get there is by renting a private vehicle in a country you're unfamiliar with, then spend $400 a night on a crappy, run down hotel, when you can get to for example Salzburg, Austria via a 30 minute, 20€ train ride from Munich?

If the train is fast and frequent enough, I imagine a lot of folks will just stay in Calgary for the majority of their trip.

[Fuzz]

I'm not saying it's totally useless or totally horrible idea, I'm saying this math is off, probably by an order of magnitude. And if is that easy, no one is staying in Calgary an extra day when they could be in the mountains, unless it is during Stampede.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm not saying it's totally useless or totally horrible idea, I'm saying this math is off, probably by an order of magnitude. And if is that easy, no one is staying in Calgary an extra day when they could be in the mountains, unless it is during Stampede.

So even according to your calculations, $1billion seems fairly probable. You don't think you can attract more visitors if it was easy as taking the train to Banff?

I also question why you're taking only international visitors into account? Why doesn't a visitor from Toronto or Montreal count?

[CliffFletcher]

There’s a reason passenger rail to Banff was cancelled decades ago - it was slower and more expensive than all of the other options, so nobody used it. The only time I ever rode it was a jr high class trip to Field, B.C. The train was less than half occupied.

Rail a nice way to travel, but the mass ridership just isn’t there. It only makes sense as a luxury option, like the Rocky Mountaineer.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So even according to your calculations, $1billion seems fairly probable. You don't think you can attract more visitors if it was easy as taking the train to Banff?

I also question why you're taking only international visitors into account? Why doesn't a visitor from Toronto or Montreal count?

No, it doesn't! Was that your takeaway? Sigh. No. That was capturing every single international tourist, and extracting $500 from them. That's not probably because you will never get every tourist on a train, stopping for a stayover in Calgary, and spending half of what they would in Banff in Calgary. It's highly improbable, unless you are making assumptions for a poster that needs big numbers.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by _Q_

So making it easier, cheaper, faster and more enjoyable to get out to the mountains will have no affect on the number of visitors coming through the airport?

Banff is great, but all other things being equal, there are tons of other mountain towns around the planet. Why visit Banff if the only way to get there is by renting a private vehicle in a country you're unfamiliar with, then spend $400 a night on a crappy, run down hotel, when you can get to for example Salzburg, Austria via a 30 minute, 20€ train ride from Munich?

If the train is fast and frequent enough, I imagine a lot of folks will just stay in Calgary for the majority of their trip.

If it will attract more visitors then we probably shouldn't do it. There seems to be no appetite for expanding the mountain towns or adding new ones in Canada. Covid aside, they're bursting at the seams during the busy season already.

Also, shout out Salzburg. I haven't been to too many places compared to some of the world travellers here, but I have been there and it's fataing beautiful.