[News] Giordano left unprotected in expansion draft

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

* Such good depth that the team missed the playoffs

I’m not surprised people are upset no matter what happens at this point. It’s now the time that you see the impact of the mistake Tre made, but the mistake itself is in the past.

Gio should have been moved at the TDL

I honestly don't know if a guy with 1 1/4 years left would have had much of a market in a flat cap world.

Either way they were close enough that it wasn't a gimme that they should be sellers.

Honestly I'm just glad they didn't waste assets adding in an attempt to close the gap.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

IMO the players should choose but subject to a team veto (to be used sparingly).

I understand your point about that, but I don't think I agree. Since we've been talking about ancient history, do you remember what happened after Peplinski retired? The Flames were left without a captain, and they let the players elect a new one. They chose Brad McCrimmon, who became the leader of an organized campaign to have Terry Crisp fired. The team played inexcusably badly in the 1990 playoffs, because they had not only tuned out the coach, they were deliberately trying to get rid of him. Cliff Fletcher wound up firing the coach and trading the ringleaders for peanuts, and that was the end of the Flames as a dominant team in the league.

If there are questions about the character of some of the guys in the room, I don't think it's wise to let those same guys choose their own leader. Ask around one-on-one, by all means, and see what names come up and why. But in the end it's a player personnel decision, and the GM takes the blame if it goes wrong. He may delegate that decision to the coach, but he shouldn't simply surrender it.

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Is this true? Wouldn’t be the first time I’m wrong but usually forwards that are top 6 or top 9 in ice time aren’t the ones that get healthy scratched. There are exceptions of course.

Are there ice time stats for the playoffs that year?

Middle 6 isn’t my favorite term anyway. Certainly on that team, if Peplinski was top 9 in ice time as you say that’s equating him to a guy like Loob or Nieuwendyk who were also “middle six”. Unless you don’t consider the Gilmour line the top line. But again I haven’t seen ice time stats.

IMO Lanny and Tim Hunter were clear bottom of the roster forwards all year and Peplinski joined them by end of the playoffs. Peplinski was finished by the following year.

…and then he came back!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It won't take long to burn through $21 million. They need a top 6 RW, top 4 defenseman, backup goaltender, bottom six center, etc.

Not necessarily advocating for all these, but to put some numbers up:

Top 6 RW: Hyman $6 mil
#2 LD: Martinez $5 mil
Middle 6 RW: Armia $3 mil
#2 G: Bernier $3 mil
Bottom 6 C: Cizikas $2 mil

= $19 mil

Dube (RFA) + $2 mil

= $21 mil

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I understand your point about that, but I don't think I agree. Since we've been talking about ancient history, do you remember what happened after Peplinski retired? The Flames were left without a captain, and they let the players elect a new one. They chose Brad McCrimmon, who became the leader of an organized campaign to have Terry Crisp fired. The team played inexcusably badly in the 1990 playoffs, because they had not only tuned out the coach, they were deliberately trying to get rid of him.

If there are questions about the character of some of the guys in the room, I don't think it's wise to let those same guys choose their own leader. Ask around one-on-one, by all means, and see what names come up and why. But in the end it's a player personnel decision, and the GM takes the blame if it goes wrong. He may delegate that decision to the coach, but he shouldn't simply surrender it.

I didn't remember that the players chose McCrimmon - I was under the impression the coach did. Crisp wasn't a good coach in any event.

Counterpoint - Jean Beliveau was a players choice. So was Saku Koivu (management would have picked Shayne Corson).

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ticle14450847/

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Not necessarily advocating for all these, but to put some numbers up:

Top 6 RW: Hyman $6 mil
#2 LD: Martinez $5 mil
Middle 6 RW: Armia $3 mil
#2 G: Bernier $3 mil
Bottom 6 C: Cizikas $2 mil

= $19 mil

Dube (RFA) + $2 mil

= $21 mil

I wouldn't pay Hyman $6M. Martinez at $5M seems high as well. I wouldn't sign a backup goaltender $3M. In the Flat cap world you have to get better value, and players are going to have to bite the bullet on lesser salaries. Have to squeeze out the best contracts you can because the coffers have taken a pretty good hit the past two seasons. Salary expectations will have to shift downward over the next couple of years.

[N-E-B]

Losing Gio will suck but I’m choosing to look at it as we’ve just been given an extra $6.75m of cap space to work with this off-season. That’s huge.

Gio is awesome but he’s 38. We could be doing a lot worse.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by blankall

I think the Flames luck is actually pretty great here. Due to the way Valimaki's injuries/contract worked out, we don't have to use a spot on him. Losing Giordano for nothing is weak, but losing a player like Valimaki would have been much much worse.

Also, Tanev was clearly better than Giordano last year. He fits the team's structure better too.

Giordano being exposed isn't so much the product of bad luck, as it is having Tanev, Andersson, and Hanifin all playing well enough to not expose, which is good luck.

If Valimaki played in last year playoffs in the bubble he would have been exposed.

The Flames would have lost either Gio or Valimaki.... not both

If Valimaki were exposed would the Flames offer Kylington and a 3rd for Seattle to pick Gio?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If Valimaki were exposed would the Flames offer Kylington and a 3rd for Seattle to pick Gio?

I would hope so, but I bet Seattle declines and takes Valimaki.

I think I would prefer Tanev being exposed in that scenario though.

[GreenLantern2814]

Kylington’s possession numbers took a huge leap forward this season, albeit in limited sample size.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I would hope so, but I bet Seattle declines and takes Valimaki.

.

Agreed, I personally believe Valimaki will be a top 4 dman.

Just needs more time

[868904]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Not necessarily advocating for all these, but to put some numbers up:

Top 6 RW: Hyman $6 mil
#2 LD: Martinez $5 mil
Middle 6 RW: Armia $3 mil
#2 G: Bernier $3 mil
Bottom 6 C: Cizikas $2 mil

= $19 mil

Dube (RFA) + $2 mil

= $21 mil

Don’t forget you need to give raises to Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane the year after.

It’s not as simple as filling up the $21 million in cap space for the coming season.

There aren’t any other big overpriced contracts that are going away the year after to make new cap space, that doesn’t happen for another two years when Lucic’s contract ends.

[cowtown75]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Not necessarily advocating for all these, but to put some numbers up:

Top 6 RW: Hyman $6 mil
#2 LD: Martinez $5 mil
Middle 6 RW: Armia $3 mil
#2 G: Bernier $3 mil
Bottom 6 C: Cizikas $2 mil

= $19 mil

Dube (RFA) + $2 mil

= $21 mil

I can see Martinez on our team. He has a winning pedigree with Darryl in LA, is a steady veteran who can chip in offensively. He did well in Vegas.

[1qqaaz]

Alec Martinez turns 34 in a week. Very old.
But he hasn't slowed down much thus far. Can't get much more clutch than scoring a cup winning goal in OT.
I like him but I wouldn't give him more than 2 years.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Maybe they'll take Spencer Foo.

[SuperMatt18]

Honestly IMO this sucks more for Gio than it does the Flames.

Flames get $6.5M in cap, and while they lose Gio for nothing and don't get an asset for him, you have to lose something in the expansion draft and a guy who is going to be 38 by the time the season starts isn't the worst thing to lose.

I think it sucks for Gio though. He deserved to be able to choose to leave this franchise on his own terms and have the chance to retire as a Flame if that is what he wished.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think it sucks for Gio though. He deserved to be able to choose to leave this franchise on his own terms and have the chance to retire as a Flame if that is what he wished.

I get this feeling as an initial reaction, but when I stop and think about it, he gets zero pity from me

He made a career at playing hockey and got paid millions of dollars to do so.

He has been treated with respect, and now an expansion draft is occurring which his union agreed to the rules of.

If he wanted to finish in Calgary, he should of took less money and signed a NMC, even without the foresight of this expansion draft, he still could of got traded.

He choose more money and a limited NTC. Good for him, and I am sad to see him potentially go, but I don't feel bad for him at all.

[Finger Cookin]

He can still retire as a Flame.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by 868904

Don’t forget you need to give raises to Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane the year after.

It’s not as simple as filling up the $21 million in cap space for the coming season.

There aren’t any other big overpriced contracts that are going away the year after to make new cap space, that doesn’t happen for another two years when Lucic’s contract ends.

Good point. And you’re not going to get any decent UFAs to sign for a single season. So looking at capfriendly, one or more well-paid roster players will need to be moved for cap relief by next off-season. Monahan is the obvious place to look for at least a couple mil cap space in a trade.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Honestly IMO this sucks more for Gio than it does the Flames.

Flames get $6.5M in cap, and while they lose Gio for nothing and don't get an asset for him, you have to lose something in the expansion draft and a guy who is going to be 38 by the time the season starts isn't the worst thing to lose.

I think it sucks for Gio though. He deserved to be able to choose to leave this franchise on his own terms and have the chance to retire as a Flame if that is what he wished.

Either he plays for the Kraken and goes to the Playoffs with them or at the TDL they trade him to TB or Leafs or some other top-8 team for their late first round pick and he gets to go to the playoffs with a team that would likely be on his agreed to go to teams.

Right now, at this moment in time, he has significantly better odds of playing some playoff hockey AND Winning a playoff series than the guys the Flames protected.