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Old 07-19-2021, 02:12 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
Last time plenty of people were pissed and complained that the Flames were so pathetic that we didn't have anyone good to expose so VGK ended up taking Engelland, a pending UFA who they could have had for free.

Now we leave Gio exposed, who is clearly the correct choice, and there's anger that we already suck and are losing a good player. Shouldn't we be happy that we have good depth now if it means leaving Gio exposed? Or did he only suck when Tre was going to trade a draft pick to get Seattle to take someone else?

BTW, I am so tired of the speculation. Come on already, let's get Kraken.

* Such good depth that the team missed the playoffs

I’m not surprised people are upset no matter what happens at this point. It’s now the time that you see the impact of the mistake Tre made, but the mistake itself is in the past.

Gio should have been moved at the TDL
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:12 PM   #342
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If the Flames had protect 4 defenseman and exposed Monahan, Backlund and Dube; who would Seattle have taken?

Are any of those 3 worth a first round draft pick at the trade deadline? Yes, I'm assuming the Flames will be sellers, lowered expectations.

Monahan, without thinking twice about it
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:16 PM   #343
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Sucks to lose Gio like this, but I still think Seattle's plan A is to extort a king's ransom to protect him and then take a player like Kylington or Phillips that they may have wanted anyway.


I do think you have to take into account the value of ~5.5M in cap. Sure, Gio's more valuable than Kylington in a vacuum, but what about Kylington plus a Ladd-style cap dump trade (2 2nd-rounders)? What if by taking Kylington you can also add Tyler Johnson + a pick for free?

I think it does depends on a few other players: Carey Price especially. If they're spending $14M on goalies with Driedger, and if they add a few expensive players like Tarasenko, it really changes the math. Whereas if they stay cheap on the rest of the roster, then Gio's cap hit has no impact.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:18 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache View Post
* Such good depth that the team missed the playoffs

I’m not surprised people are upset no matter what happens at this point. It’s now the time that you see the impact of the mistake Tre made, but the mistake itself is in the past.

Gio should have been moved at the TDL
Some felt the mistake was made when they signed Gio's last contract. Now the value is strong enough that we are pissed at losing hi
Some felt the mistake was made when they signed Tanev and hoped Seattle would take him. Now he's the very reason why Gio is being exposed.

Perhaps we aren't as good at identifying the mistakes as we think.

I agree in a perfect and completely pragmatic world they would have traded Gio at the deadline. I wish this organization functioned with that type of brutal honesty towards asset management. It rarely, if ever, has.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:21 PM   #345
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Was Oliver Kylington injured last season that he only played 8 games? I don't remember and can't seem to find any info on the Flames site.

The games I saw him in he looked okay, would like to see him more regularly in the lineup.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:22 PM   #346
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Was Oliver Kylington injured last season that he only played 8 games? I don't remember and can't seem to find any info on the Flames site.

The games I saw him in he looked okay, would like to see him more regularly in the lineup.
He wasn't injured.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:24 PM   #347
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He wasn't injured.
Thanks, I didn't think so.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:27 PM   #348
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Talking about ice time, Peplinski actually played on the third line in the last full year of his career. That is the fact. That is all.
Is this true? Wouldn’t be the first time I’m wrong but usually forwards that are top 6 or top 9 in ice time aren’t the ones that get healthy scratched. There are exceptions of course.

Are there ice time stats for the playoffs that year?

Middle 6 isn’t my favorite term anyway. Certainly on that team, if Peplinski was top 9 in ice time as you say that’s equating him to a guy like Loob or Nieuwendyk who were also “middle six”. Unless you don’t consider the Gilmour line the top line. But again I haven’t seen ice time stats.

IMO Lanny and Tim Hunter were clear bottom of the roster forwards all year and Peplinski joined them by end of the playoffs. Peplinski was finished by the following year.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:37 PM   #349
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Is this true? Wouldn’t be the first time I’m wrong but usually forwards that are top 6 or top 9 in ice time aren’t the ones that get healthy scratched. There are exceptions of course.

Are there ice time stats for the playoffs that year?

Middle 6 isn’t my favorite term anyway. Certainly on that team, if Peplinski was top 9 in ice time as you say that’s equating him to a guy like Loob or Nieuwendyk who were also “middle six”. Unless you don’t consider the Gilmour line the top line. But again I haven’t seen ice time stats.

IMO Lanny and Tim Hunter were clear bottom of the roster forwards all year and Peplinski joined them by end of the playoffs. Peplinski was finished by the following year.
I'll never forget when the Flames lent Pepper to the 88 Olympic squad. Watching him lumber down the ice and chase the play on the big ice was painful to watch.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:37 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
Some felt the mistake was made when they signed Gio's last contract. Now the value is strong enough that we are pissed at losing hi
Some felt the mistake was made when they signed Tanev and hoped Seattle would take him. Now he's the very reason why Gio is being exposed.

Perhaps we aren't as good at identifying the mistakes as we think.

I agree in a perfect and completely pragmatic world they would have traded Gio at the deadline. I wish this organization functioned with that type of brutal honesty towards asset management. It rarely, if ever, has.
How happy would we have been when his contract was signed to know that the club could get out from underneath the final year for free?

Credit where it’s due, that was a good contract for the team.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:42 PM   #351
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I'll never forget when the Flames lent Pepper to the 88 Olympic squad. Watching him lumber down the ice and chase the play on the big ice was painful to watch.
He was so gassed on the bench too. That was not his style of game.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:43 PM   #352
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How happy would we have been when his contract was signed to know that the club could get out from underneath the final year for free?

Credit where it’s due, that was a good contract for the team.
It was a great contract - he won a fricking Norris!

And now, the Flames are going to get out of the last year of it, making it a crazy-good contract. Pretty much a dream scenario, from the time of signing.

And yet most posters are doing nothing but bitching about it.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:44 PM   #353
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Well one thing we can agree on. There is no way Pepper would have scored on Roy like Lanny did in Game 6.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:44 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
Some felt the mistake was made when they signed Gio's last contract. Now the value is strong enough that we are pissed at losing hi
Some felt the mistake was made when they signed Tanev and hoped Seattle would take him. Now he's the very reason why Gio is being exposed.

Perhaps we aren't as good at identifying the mistakes as we think.

I agree in a perfect and completely pragmatic world they would have traded Gio at the deadline. I wish this organization functioned with that type of brutal honesty towards asset management. It rarely, if ever, has.

It is great that Gio outperformed that deal.

I get what you are saying, and Tre knew the expansion draft was coming and knew he was going to be in the position to select 3 of 4 D to protect.

And I get why he didn’t concede defeat. He had just brought in Darryl and was hoping he could right the ship.

I don’t really see the need to fault him much for this. As much as I called it a mistake, I’m happy to back it off and say the decision was made then, and the consequences are being seen now
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:46 PM   #355
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Is this true? Wouldn’t be the first time I’m wrong but usually forwards that are top 6 or top 9 in ice time aren’t the ones that get healthy scratched. There are exceptions of course.

Are there ice time stats for the playoffs that year?

Middle 6 isn’t my favorite term anyway. Certainly on that team, if Peplinski was top 9 in ice time as you say that’s equating him to a guy like Loob or Nieuwendyk who were also “middle six”. Unless you don’t consider the Gilmour line the top line. But again I haven’t seen ice time stats.

IMO Lanny and Tim Hunter were clear bottom of the roster forwards all year and Peplinski joined them by end of the playoffs. Peplinski was finished by the following year. 07-19-2021 08:24 PM

sorry glitch to quote feature.



it's pretty interesting - in the regular season the Flames had 3 LWs all finish with exactly 38 points - Patterson who played with Mullen and Gilmour , Roberts who played with Nieuwendyk and Loob and then Pepper


now I think as the year went on and even into the playoffs there was a reshuffling of the depth chart- Fleury showed up half way through, then MacLellan at the deadline. Pepper drifted down the depth chart a bit as it went along
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:54 PM   #356
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It was a great contract - he won a fricking Norris!

And now, the Flames are going to get out of the last year of it, making it a crazy-good contract. Pretty much a dream scenario, from the time of signing.

And yet most posters are doing nothing but bitching about it.
I think the issue is more - We weren't anywhere near good enough last year, and we are loosing our 2nd or 3rd best defenseman for nothing , can we really get much better this year?

And since the answer is probably NO - Then why did we hold onto him last year when we were out of the playoffs?

If Andersson and Valimaki takes big leaps and we have a solid top 4, and don't waste Gio's $$ on another overpaid D but a scoring forward it has the potential to work out great.

It's just a weird sequence of asset management unless Gio truely had zero value at the deadline. But that seems weird as the team acquiring could have just left him unprotected and had Seattle (most likely) pick him anyways.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:56 PM   #357
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Are there ice time stats for the playoffs that year?
That was before the NHL started keeping TOI statistics for skaters. Hockey-Reference.com only has them going back to 2007-08.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:57 PM   #358
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Is this true? Wouldn’t be the first time I’m wrong but usually forwards that are top 6 or top 9 in ice time aren’t the ones that get healthy scratched. There are exceptions of course.

Are there ice time stats for the playoffs that year?

Middle 6 isn’t my favorite term anyway. Certainly on that team, if Peplinski was top 9 in ice time as you say that’s equating him to a guy like Loob or Nieuwendyk who were also “middle six”. Unless you don’t consider the Gilmour line the top line. But again I haven’t seen ice time stats.

IMO Lanny and Tim Hunter were clear bottom of the roster forwards all year and Peplinski joined them by end of the playoffs. Peplinski was finished by the following year. 07-19-2021 08:24 PM

sorry glitch to quote feature.



it's pretty interesting - in the regular season the Flames had 3 LWs all finish with exactly 38 points - Patterson who played with Mullen and Gilmour , Roberts who played with Nieuwendyk and Loob and then Pepper


now I think as the year went on and even into the playoffs there was a reshuffling of the depth chart- Fleury showed up half way through, then MacLellan at the deadline. Pepper drifted down the depth chart a bit as it went along
My point that got us all into this was that even if Dube ends up as a middle sixer, he could still be captain - the best year in franchise history had three bottom* sixers as co=captains (caveat being that Lanny was a former top line player).

I think a good captain doesn't need to be a top player, but he has to be able to say "look at my play - I'm contributing and you should too". and they have to have some years behind them, so they can speak to the team and refs from experience.

IMO the players should choose but subject to a team veto (to be used sparingly).
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:58 PM   #359
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Was Oliver Kylington injured last season that he only played 8 games? I don't remember and can't seem to find any info on the Flames site.

The games I saw him in he looked okay, would like to see him more regularly in the lineup.
The Flames were also 6-1-1 in those 8 games.

Obviously there were a number of other factors/variables, but I'd love to see what Sutter can get out of Oliver in an expanded role.
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:58 PM   #360
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I think the Flames luck is actually pretty great here. Due to the way Valimaki's injuries/contract worked out, we don't have to use a spot on him. Losing Giordano for nothing is weak, but losing a player like Valimaki would have been much much worse.

Also, Tanev was clearly better than Giordano last year. He fits the team's structure better too.

Giordano being exposed isn't so much the product of bad luck, as it is having Tanev, Andersson, and Hanifin all playing well enough to not expose, which is good luck.
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