[Rumour] UPD: no deals for Flames before expansion draft roster freeze

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

But he is not responsible for their failure to do a rebuild, as many posters claim. That decision was made above his pay grade.

It all started around this quote. Maybe it’s the characterization of not rebuilding as a failure.

I don’t think that either Tre or ownership think a full rebuild is even on the table, to be honest.

So we do agree on the idea that a rebuild would require ownership buy in, which isn’t likely there, so it’s not an option for Brad, even if he did want it

I don’t think you take a team just removed from a second place finish, with all key pieces in prime years, and completely blow it up.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I don’t think you take a team just removed from a second place finish, with all key pieces in prime years, and completely blow it up.

Neither do I, but a lot of posters around here do, and want Treliving fired for his supposed refusal to do so.

[Mephisto]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I'm convinced it's part of it. When I look at the owners of the Canadian teams, I don't see a lot of risk-takers.

Murray Edwards made most of his money by takeovers of existing oil and gas producers in mature fields.

Daryl Katz made his by buying up regional drugstore chains, another mature business.

The Molsons owned one of the three companies that controlled the Canadian beer market for decades, and when they had to face competition from abroad, they merged their business with Coors.

Eugene Melnyk made his pile by manufacturing proven drugs after their patents had expired.

The Leafs are owned mostly by Bell and Rogers, the major players in the cartel that holds complete control of the Canadian media and telephone businesses. By law, no foreign company is permitted to compete with them, and no Canadian company has the resources to go up against them. They basically have a licence to print money from the CRTC.

Mark Chipman got rich by consolidating automobile dealerships into a larger chain, with a profitable sideline in car leasing. His partner, David Thomson, inherited big money; his grandfather bought up newspapers and consolidated them into one of the two big chains that controlled the business in English Canada, and his father parlayed that into control of Reuters and other electronic news outlets.

Francesco Aquilini trades real estate and builds condos. He probably takes more risks in his business than all the others put together.

None of these men, as far as I can discover, has invented a new product, created a new market, or taken any of the other big risks that make people into billionaires or bankrupts. I would not expect any of them to roll the dice on their NHL franchises when they can run nice, quiet, mediocre teams that never win any championships but never lose any money.

Awesome. Now do a drive by biography on the other 25 owners in the league. You are going to tell me that most of them were disruptive genius risk takers, right?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Sure. What’s wrong with that?

I believe the owners helped along the coaching decision (and any such sensitive conversations were not made public). It’s not possible to know outright, but you can piece together a lot of reasons why that would be the case. I believe it based on my view of the situation

I do not believe that Tre recommended a rebuild to the owners and that the owners declined (and no such conversations have been made public) . And you can piece together many reasons why it is unlikely such a conversation happened. Again, my belief based on my view of the situation.

You’re ‘view of the situation’ seems a bit suspect is all. Seems like confirmation bias to me.

Going back to the Sutter hire, Friedman reported the Flames had been in contact with Sutter since Peters left. I made the argument at the time and I’ll make it again, if the owners hired Sutter, why is Treliving still the GM? As more time passes and Treliving is still the GM, I would suggest it seems more likely that it was Treliving’s decision. Did the owners assist? Probably, given their history with Sutter.

When Treliving first came aboard, do you think he thought the team would make the playoffs and reach the second round in year 1? Whose decision, from an organizational direction perspective, do you think it was to make the playoffs next year? My bet is the owners. How would have shortcutting the rebuild better served Treliving? He was one year in with plenty of run way. Whether you want to admit it or not, Treliving understands the value of draft picks and being patient and all the things a lot of people are clamouring for here. Fact of the matter is the owners don’t see it that way.

Fashionable thing to say here is that Treliving has had seven years. Well, this ownership group has had, what, coming up on 30? Edwards has been in the fold since 94 and they’ve had one top five pick in that time and five GM’s.

My view of the situation is a rebuild is not on the table if you want to be the GM of the Calgary Flames.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Maybe ownership is generally fine with everything Tre has done aside from coaching selection, and view it as fixable and not fireable

No dispute with your view, agree a rebuild isn’t on the table

[bubbsy]

So far, the offseason is just as expected. Tweak around the edges, no major swings, nothing to risk being in the race for 8th in the conference.

Idiots.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

So far, the offseason is just as expected. Tweak around the edges, no major swings, nothing to risk being in the race for 8th in the conference.

Idiots.

The off season just started
Jesus

[topfiverecords]

Nobody is doing anything until the expansion draft is over.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The off season just started
Jesus

And that means all the things need to be happening right meow!!

[Rollin22x]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

And that means all the things need to be happening right meow!!

And that means all the things need to be happening right meow!!

[DeluxeMoustache]

Here’s a fun look back at a SI article from 2019 predicting the Flames protected list

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/expan...xpansion-draft

It did set the ground rules that all NMCs were honoured

Forwards:
Milan Lucic (NMC)
Johnny Gaudreau
Sean Monahan
Mikael Backlund
Elias Lindholm
Matthew Tkachuk
Dillon Dube

Defensemen:
Noah Hanifin
Juuso Valimaki
Rasmus Andersson

Goaltenders:
Jon Gillies

NOTABLE EXPOSURES: Sam Bennett, Mark Jankowski, Mark Giordano, Oliver Kylington, David Rittich

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by klikitiklik

Sorry about this rant.

He deserves all the criticism he gets and it is also why people fly off the handle when trades are proposed. Why shouldn't we question everything he does? Why shouldn't people be free to over react? The smartest guy in the room doesn't listen or keep his assistants in the loop(as per Conroy), so he has accepted all the responsibility. He's just not good enough.

I'm not in any way saying I could do better but in terms of head to head vs NHL GMs, he is near the bottom in my opinion.

The buck stops at Treliving. It's his team and he has built it. ALL of the issues this team has and is facing is his doing.

rant over.

Well, no, he doesn’t deserve “all” the criticism he gets because some of it is bound to be incorrect and unfounded.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Quote from the above SI article

THE TOUGH DECISION: Yes, Mark Giordano is left unprotected, but at least listen to the reasoning. In June 2021, Giordano will be months away from his 38th birthday and one year away from unrestricted free agency. Despite his aging like a fine wine, chances are he’s going to have lost a step by that point and won’t be worth the near $7-million cap hit Seattle would have to incur. Some might see it as a gamble, but there will be enough talent exposed elsewhere that Giordano should remain a Flame.


LESSON LEARNED: The Flames shouldn’t expect Seattle to do their dirty work for them. Left exposed at the 2017 expansion draft were Troy Brouwer, Brandon Bollig, Michael Stone and Brian Elliot, but the Golden Knights took Deryk Engelland and left Calgary to deal with some of those tough contracts.

[GioforPM]

This is crazy. A day ago posters were upset that Treliving was looking at all possible options to keep Gio, and today they’re upset that he didn’t pull the trigger on any of those options they were mad he was considering.

There were two options: do a deal with Seattle, which people all hated, and deal him to another team, which required a trading partner who (a) wanted Gio, (b) had an open D slot to protect, (c) had cap room to pay Gio and (d) had some sort of asset to trade that didn’t need protecting in the ED and was worth the Flames’ while. Quick, name that team.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

So far, the offseason is just as expected. Tweak around the edges, no major swings, nothing to risk being in the race for 8th in the conference.

Idiots.

Good post man. Well done.

Happy to hear about ‘how it’s done’ any day now

L.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The off season just started
Jesus

Prioritizing a 38 year old dman, on a 1 year contract... Sure, it's just started but it is much of the same from this organization.

Apologies, I keep forgetting this forum is more and and more a group think, "flames are the ideal franchise " circle jerk.

Maybe the decision makers are just as dumb as their records have shown for 30 years.

I'll play along if you want. Flames will decide they are decent enough and make some big swings, or they will rebuild.

No chance they are idiotic enough to go with basically the same roster/core as the last 3 seasons, right? Right??

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Prioritizing a 38 year old dman, on a 1 year contract... Sure, it's just started but it is much of the same from this organization.

Apologies, I keep forgetting this forum is more and and more a group think, "flames are the ideal franchise " circle jerk.

Maybe the decision makers are just as dumb as their records have shown for 30 years.

I'll play along if you want. Flames will decide they are decent enough and make some big swings, or they will rebuild.

No chance they are idiotic enough to go with basically the same roster/core as the last 3 seasons, right? Right??

Wow. Came off the top rope, then doubled down on it.

Seems like there’s some stuff going on here. Tell a therapist, not Calgary Puck.

[InternationalVillager]

I don’t mind the overreactions. It’s whatever.

But I do tend to agree though. The more I think about it, the more I am starting to believe that the changes will just be made around the edges and that’s it. The core of the team will remain the same going forward into next season. That’s just what I am leaning towards.

I’m preparing myself so I don’t get all flustered if that is actually the reality.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ if you truly believe that trash coaches are improved on markedly by Sutter then this is not the end of the world

If you believe these players are uncoachable, well then now we have a problem

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ if you truly believe that trash coaches are improved on markedly by Sutter then this is not the end of the world

If you believe these players are uncoachable, well then now we have a problem

I just don’t think the team is good enough to compete. No matter who the coach is. This team can’t play Sutter hockey on a consistent basis.

It’s very disappointing that Flames are high on Hyman. It’s pretty much a confirmed rumour. Signing a player like that to 7 year term is all sorts of wrong. That’s really pretty much the final nail in the coffin for me in terms of having any faith left in management - Treliving.

I fully expect (in my head) Treliving to trot out and say that Sutter deserves a full camp and season with the team. He deserves that much to assess what he has in the group etc etc.